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:SECOND UPDATE: Ximian CEO Defends Google AdWords Campaign, Will Not Create New Ads
SECOND UPDATE: Ximian CEO Defends Google AdWords Campaign, Will Not Create New Ads
Feb 13, 2001, 12 :31 UTC (104 Talkback[s]) (20999 reads)

(Other stories by Michael Hall)

SECOND UPDATE: Since this story was first published last night, the open letter appearing on Ximian's web site has changed, and Ximian has announced that it will "revise its advertisements on Google to eliminate the possibility of confusion, and will not create new advertising campaigns based on KDE-related keyword searches." A look at Google this morning confirmed that the keywords reported on below (kde, konqueror, kparts, dcop) no longer return a Ximian ad.

UPDATE: Since we spoke to him earlier this evening, Nat Friedman has announced that Ximian has changed course slightly with regards to its ad campaign. In a follow-up interview conducted after this story was first run, citing his conviction that Ximian had done no wrong in running the ads, Friedman announced that the ad campaign will continue uninterrupted. Ximian has posted a response of its own on its website,.

By Michael Hall, LinuxToday

Noting his own surprise at the vociferousness of a web page posted by KDE developers addressing his company's purchase of KDE-related "ad words" on the popular Google search engine, Ximian President and CEO Nat Friedman said the company will not suspend the ads, despite earlier plans to do so.

The conflict over the ads, which were first reported on Linux Weekly News, centers around Google's "ad words" program, which allows advertisers to purchase ads that appear in relationship to keywords entered by users of the search engine. In this case, searching on such terms as "kde", "konqueror", "dcop" (the KDE "Desktop COmmunications Protocol"), and kparts (the KDE component model) causes Google to display an ad for Ximian, which produces an enhanced version of the GNOME desktop environment.

Today KDE developers Kurt Granroth and Andreas Pour published a web page entitled ""Business Ethics" in the Open Source Community?" that took Ximian to task for the ads, saying the company had rejected the ethics of the Open Source community and engaged in "deceitful" practices.

Friedman defended Ximian's actions:

"We knew what we were doing," he said, noting that Ximian's goal is to ensure "as many users for Ximian GNOME as possible," within the context of "friendly competition."

Ximian's intent in taking out the ads, according to Friedman, wasn't hostile or deceptive, and he said he believes people searching for information on the KDE desktop environment "might also be interested in Ximian."

Friedman also addressed concerns that the ads, which make no direct mention of GNOME as they appear on Google!, were an attempt to deceive or mislead the site's users. Friedman said that if the ad campaign continues after the company confers with KDE developers, they'll likely include the word "GNOME" in the ads to allay these concerns.

Though some mail correspondence between the Ximian webmaster and KDE community members had taken place previous to today, Friedman also took issue with the abruptness of the web page's publication, saying it came without any attempt on the part of the authors to contact Ximian representatives to make their concerns known.

"We were a little surprised," he said, saying later in an interview conducted this afternoon that he "wished they'd talked to us about this."

Noting the past history of the the KDE and GNOME organizations, Friedman said the ads are "not the first volley over the wall", citing an incident in 1999 where Friedman and Ximian co-founder Miguel de Icaza purchased the "gnome-support.com" domain preparatory to launching a company centered around professional support and services for the GNOME desktop (what eventually became Ximian). According to Friedman, within weeks of purchasing the domain, KDE developer Martin Konold purchased "gnome-support.de" and redirected traffic to the KDE web site. Though Konold still owns the domain, it no longer redirects to KDE's pages.

Friedman plans to publish his own response to the issue later this evening, and a link to that page will be included here.

Related Stories:
Kurt Granroth and Andreas Pour: "Business Ethics" in the Open Source Community?(Feb 12, 2001)


Index Mode   |   Flat Mode   |   Thread Mode   |   Thread Flat  
  Talkback(s) Name  and Date
Nat Friedman is attempting to confuse th ...   NOT ABOUT GNOME! About Ximian.   
KDE User
Feb 13, 2001, 00:12:39
 
#Disclaimer - I'm blaming everyone.
 ...   More overblown hysteria.   
Dane Jackson
Feb 13, 2001, 00:16:36
 
Man... This is sad.  Both KDE and Ximian ...   sad...   
Leo
Feb 13, 2001, 00:17:48
 
From what the original web posting said, ...   well from what the letter said they contacted ximi   
jj
Feb 13, 2001, 00:21:12
 
Good, Glad to a level headed solution to ...   GOOD   
horst
Feb 13, 2001, 00:25:13
 
It's faster, lighter, nicer looking, ...   That's why I use CTWM   
James Ryan
Feb 13, 2001, 00:25:45
 
If they are not tyring to mislead, why d ...   misleading?   
jj
Feb 13, 2001, 00:27:00
 
The original report was such grandstandi ...   grandstanding   
Sean
Feb 13, 2001, 00:35:34
 

After what Martin Konold did with gnom ...   KDE Looks like idiots   
Joe Barr
Feb 13, 2001, 00:41:19
 
Ximian needs to identify themselves upfr ...   Positive steps ...   
George Mitchell
Feb 13, 2001, 00:46:45
 
Martin Konold's actions are not endo ...   Re: KDE Looks like idiots   
David Faure
Feb 13, 2001, 00:49:32
 
I got a good laugh out of this.  So shou ...   Funny   
me
Feb 13, 2001, 00:58:33
 
Yeah, but you probably thought it was pr ...   Re: Re: KDE Looks like idiots   
chris
Feb 13, 2001, 01:05:33
 
Advertising is not evil.

Advertising  ...   Someone needs a thicker hide   
tommy higbee
Feb 13, 2001, 01:07:00
 
First of all, it's rather presumptio ...   Re: Re: Re: KDE Looks like idiots   
Dan
Feb 13, 2001, 01:18:38
 
Of course the KDE project can't make ...   KDE does not look like idiots   
Michael
Feb 13, 2001, 01:18:41
 
On the one hand it was definately a wron ...   heh heh   
error27
Feb 13, 2001, 01:18:57
 
Guys, pleeeese fix KDE 2.x to bring it u ...   Fix KDE2 ....   
Ron Callaway
Feb 13, 2001, 01:20:20
 
and we should thank the developers who w ...   KDE is an awesome set of software..   
d@
Feb 13, 2001, 01:21:00
 
I applaud Ximian's aggressive tactic ...   Implicit admission, Grown up actions   
Dean Pannell (a.k.a. dinotrac)
Feb 13, 2001, 01:25:02
 
I believe the upper management of Ximian ...   Nat Friedman - Bill Gates   
Anon
Feb 13, 2001, 01:25:42
 
The link to the interview (http://www.xi ...   Where's the link to the update?   
Degan
Feb 13, 2001, 01:27:36
 
You mean people actually look at ads? My ...   Ehhh??   
Feral
Feb 13, 2001, 01:32:49
 
> 
> After what Martin Konold did with  ...   Re: KDE Looks like idiots   
borg
Feb 13, 2001, 01:33:59
 
I don't see anything that's misl ...   Xamian is justified   
Weiqi Gao
Feb 13, 2001, 02:00:17
 
I'm surprised by Ximian's attemp ...   Re: KDE does not look like idiots   
Kent Nguyen
Feb 13, 2001, 02:03:28
 
What is the problem?  Ximian is showing  ...   Re: Re: KDE does not look like idiots   
Ryan Muldoon
Feb 13, 2001, 02:23:13
 
Nat Friedman, your conduct and your comp ...   Spoken like a true corporate, Nat Friedman   
sad
Feb 13, 2001, 02:27:33
 
"We firmly believe that we are in the ri ...   Nat, your response is lame   
Leo
Feb 13, 2001, 02:36:23
 
> Could those who claim the ad improper  ...   Re: Xamian is justified   
Leo
Feb 13, 2001, 02:49:08
 
How come their ads don't pop up when ...   KDE does not look like idiots.   
Threska
Feb 13, 2001, 02:49:58
 
The KDE people have no reason to complai ...   Thats just how advertising works   
Peter
Feb 13, 2001, 03:01:43
 
KDE needs a better way of promoting itse ...   KDE advocacy   
Brad
Feb 13, 2001, 03:17:27
 
Works for me, guy. Hasn't crashed on ...   Re: Fix KDE2 ....   
brad
Feb 13, 2001, 03:19:28
 
 I am sorry, but I don't agree. I do ...   Sorry Nat   
H.Aurag
Feb 13, 2001, 03:22:53
 
> The KDE people have no reason to compl ...   Re: Thats just how advertising works   
Leo
Feb 13, 2001, 03:25:56
 
Thank you for saying what I was thinking ...   Re: Nat, your response is lame   
Gary
Feb 13, 2001, 03:26:12
 
The KDE community should be ashamed of i ...   My God...   
Han Roller
Feb 13, 2001, 03:27:11
 
> GNOME project are terminated ASAP.  Yo ...   Re: Spoken like a true corporate, Nat Friedman   
Leo
Feb 13, 2001, 03:27:46
 
> The point was *why* was that ad there  ...   Re: Re: Xamian is justified   
Weiqi Gao
Feb 13, 2001, 03:28:52
 
I run GNOME as well as KDE. Please don&# ...   Re: Re: Xamian is justified   
Eric Caldwell
Feb 13, 2001, 03:30:10
 
People, take off the rose colored glasse ...   Not an ethics question   
John Gowin
Feb 13, 2001, 03:31:40
 
Thanks Leo for saying what I was thinkin ...   Thanks Leo   
Gary
Feb 13, 2001, 03:31:52
 

Companies place their own ads beside r ...   It's about REPUTATION   
Joe
Feb 13, 2001, 03:33:11
 
Head on over and read that response lett ...   Letter is top notch - KDE letter is REDICULOUS   
Dyna
Feb 13, 2001, 03:58:00
 
Very short sighted. Ximian will manage t ...   zero sum game   
dkite
Feb 13, 2001, 04:14:13
 

I don't know what to attribute it  ...   Miguel and Nate have no class   
Bryan Brunton
Feb 13, 2001, 04:39:25
 
spoken like a true Ximian gnome user. yo ...   Re: KDE Looks like idiots   
evil foolish kde user
Feb 13, 2001, 05:07:11
 
KDE    - Great!
Gnome  - Good and getti ...   Impressions   
Ruben
Feb 13, 2001, 05:15:02
 
I use KDE occationaly, but it's off  ...   KDE Community: Grow up   
Jan Yates
Feb 13, 2001, 05:22:46
 
Well, I read 40 or so comments and all I ...   Irrelevant to me   
tftp
Feb 13, 2001, 05:25:41
 
I agree with you.  But read more careful ...   Re: Re: Re: KDE does not look like idiots   
David Walser
Feb 13, 2001, 05:49:35
 
How many paid developers on the GNOME pr ...   Who has the money?   
me
Feb 13, 2001, 05:50:42
 
>It's funny that you mention it. But ...   Re: Re: Spoken like a true corporate, Nat Friedman   
ac
Feb 13, 2001, 05:54:59
 
I totally agree.  And furthermore, look  ...   Re: Thats just how advertising works   
David Walser
Feb 13, 2001, 06:12:16
 
> >It's funny that you mention it. B ...   Re: Re: Re: Spoken like a true corporate, Nat Frie   
Kent Nguyen
Feb 13, 2001, 06:28:04
 
> >It's funny that you mention it. B ...   Re: Re: Re: Spoken like a true corporate, Nat Frie   
Leo
Feb 13, 2001, 06:44:19
 
Would you like to know why some people h ...   This is getting so childish   
Mark Bialkowski
Feb 13, 2001, 07:24:06
 
The Ximian ads on Google makes me sick.  ...   It makes me sick!   
Matt
Feb 13, 2001, 07:26:17
 
One buys the ad, the other
             ...   Re: sad...   
WiseGuy
Feb 13, 2001, 07:28:14
 
Here's the full text of the ad, sinc ...   Re: grandstanding   
WiseGuy
Feb 13, 2001, 07:41:07
 
the KDE organization needs to learn to c ...   Re: Positive steps ...   
WiseGuy
Feb 13, 2001, 07:44:42
 
OK, you should stop acting as a Free Sof ...   Ximian is a joke   
GNU screen user
Feb 13, 2001, 07:52:33
 
Microsoft has been doing this for years. ...   Ads? Who cares about ads!?   
Per Erik Stendahl
Feb 13, 2001, 08:11:36
 
Desktops are evil and have to be extingu ...   Flamebait   
Rainer Weikusat
Feb 13, 2001, 08:38:34
 

It looks to me like every time someone ...   MS Trolls??   
William B. Greenwood Jr.
Feb 13, 2001, 09:02:45
 
You tell every KDE user to grow up? Is e ...   Re: My God...   
Matt
Feb 13, 2001, 09:17:10
 
Did anyone notice how many different pro ...   Think about this first !!!   
Hani Qassim
Feb 13, 2001, 09:20:41
 
Deception in whatever guuise is wrong.   ...   KDE redrect   
Michael W. Ransom
Feb 13, 2001, 09:28:13
 
It's about bad taste that's all! ...   Re: KDE Community: Grow up *sigh*   
Matt
Feb 13, 2001, 10:08:19
 
Well, if this is the future direction of ...   MicroSoft takes out ads on Linux!   
mr microsoft
Feb 13, 2001, 11:24:14
 
http://www.ximian.com/google.php3 ...   http:/   
KDE User
Feb 13, 2001, 11:28:49
 

This is about advertising practices in ...   This is not about KDE or GNOME.   
Fred Mobach
Feb 13, 2001, 12:02:09
 
looks to me like it's a lot of fuss  ...   tout ca pour ca...   
Nicson
Feb 13, 2001, 12:09:48
 
"We were a little surprised," he said, s ...   Nat Friedman hasn't got a clue   
johnA
Feb 13, 2001, 13:25:37
 
The whole problem is that some KDE zealo ...   Re: Nat Friedman hasn't got a clue   
Christopher Felton
Feb 13, 2001, 13:39:37
 
 What is the problem?  ....  ...I don&#3 ...   Re: KDE does not look like idiots   
Jerry Kreps
Feb 13, 2001, 13:51:11
 
 Guys, pleeeese fix KDE 2.x to bring it  ...   Re: Fix KDE2 ....   
Jerry Kreps
Feb 13, 2001, 13:55:39
 
> what nonsense. Why should the KDE deve ...   Re: Nat Friedman hasn't got a clue   
Windows User
Feb 13, 2001, 13:56:10
 
I've just finished responding to the ...   Will people never learn.. *bigger sigh*   
Someone247356
Feb 13, 2001, 13:57:09
 
 You mean people actually look at ads? . ...   Re: Ehhh??   
Jerry Kreps
Feb 13, 2001, 14:04:47
 
If their ad guys are reading this, they& ...   Microsoft   
mattwb
Feb 13, 2001, 14:13:27
 
... ...So, no KDE user will ever switch  ...   Re: That's how advertizing works....   
Jerry Kreps
Feb 13, 2001, 14:15:06
 
Ximian is a business, and as such has ev ...   money thrown away   
J. Maynard Gelinas
Feb 13, 2001, 14:55:33
 
>Ximian: your money will come from custo ...   Re: money thrown away   
mattwb
Feb 13, 2001, 15:13:13
 
I don't see the problem if the searc ...   Ads Vs Hits   
R2
Feb 13, 2001, 15:25:45
 
I think the whole matter also happened b ...   culture conflict   
Moritz Moeller-Herrmann
Feb 13, 2001, 15:34:28
 
hey d00dz its over. Ximian said that it& ...   its all over   
ReignStorm
Feb 13, 2001, 15:45:09
 
I know i'm way down the list here an ...   Gnome/KDE   
John Helms
Feb 13, 2001, 15:49:13
 
Now if you want to talk deception, when  ...   Lies! (Re: It's about REPUTATION)   
an ex gnome user
Feb 13, 2001, 16:04:27
 
Someone asked earlier how we'd feel  ...   The end to KDE-GNOME segregation   
Degan
Feb 13, 2001, 17:02:03
 
I think most of this discussion is kind  ...   What do they teach kids in schools these days?   
Lee M
Feb 13, 2001, 17:13:46
 
You are certainly not very scheme-ing Mr ...   Re: money thrown away   
S.Ramaswamy
Feb 13, 2001, 17:33:52
 
>Miguel de Icaza and other GNOME develop ...   Re: Ximian is a joke   
Peter
Feb 13, 2001, 18:08:38
 
Correct me if I am wrong many of the lea ...   Re: Re: Ximian is a joke   
Christopher Felton
Feb 13, 2001, 18:42:02
 
Your assessment that many KDE developers ...   Re: Re: Re: Ximian is a joke   
jj
Feb 13, 2001, 19:03:00
 
> Head on over and read that response le ...   Re: Letter is top notch - KDE letter is REDICULOUS   
Tim Hanson
Feb 13, 2001, 19:26:01
 
I have to clear up a misconception.  the ...   Re: Re: Re: Ximian is a joke   
Shawn Gordon
Feb 13, 2001, 19:36:46
 
Long live the competition between these  ...   KDE _AND_ GNOME (NOT OR)   
dave wilson
Feb 13, 2001, 19:41:14
 
Applaud it ? Yes, let's have a flame ...   Re: Implicit admission, Grown up actions   
MickWard
Feb 13, 2001, 23:03:53
 
I have always said that the key feature  ...   What GNOME and KDE really need...   
Asfand Qazi
Feb 14, 2001, 00:56:25
 
> In the same interview, Miguel also men ...   Re: What do they teach kids in schools these days&   
Leo
Feb 14, 2001, 03:31:42
 
This Ximian prank shows off (some) KDE s ...   I love this.   
Ed Craig
Feb 14, 2001, 11:58:57
 
Why?  Advertising linux,bsd software wil ...   Re It makes me sick   
Mike
Nov 26, 2004, 00:29:53
 
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