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:Eric S. Raymond -- Communist China adopts Linux? Not so, apparently...
Eric S. Raymond -- Communist China adopts Linux? Not so, apparently...
Nov 11, 1999, 04 :07 UTC (145 Talkback[s]) (43301 reads)

(Other stories by Eric S. Raymond)

By Eric S. Raymond

In a November 10th Yahoo-UK story http://uk.news.yahoo.com/991110/22/ax8w.html, the government of Communist China is alleged to have said that Linux will be adopted by that country as its official OS and that "There is a strong identification between communist China and the open-source free OS" Authority for this statement is traced to a press release by GraphOn www.graphon.com.

This story appears to be untrue. The only GraphOn press release I can find that mentions China is http://www.graphon.com/News/pr-china991102.html from 2 Nov. This is a routine announcement of a partnership with a private firm in Hainan. There is no mention of any Chinese government sponsorship or action to make Linux "official".

In the past, I have avoided presuming to speak for the whole Linux community. This time, however, I think I may safely say that this news will come as a vast relief to all of us. Insofar as it has politics at all, the open-source movement promotes freedom, increased choice, and *voluntary* cooperation. Any "identification" between the values of the open-source community and the repressive practices of Communism is nothing but a a vicious and cynical fraud.

There are a few of us who have a soft spot for the theoretical Communist ideal of "from each according to his ability, to his each according to his need"; but I am certain that even that minority would not care to be associated with the totalitarian and murderous government of Communist China -- unrepentant perpetrators of numerous atrocities against its own people.

It may be too much to hope that this statement will head off a flurry of snide opinion pieces divagating about "open-source communism"; the clumsy rhetoric of some of our past ambassadors may have made that outcome inevitable. But the prospect of being "identified" with the bloody-handed gerontocrats behind the Tianamen Square massacre would be, I believe, genuinely revolting and insulting to all of us.

No matter that such official Chinese government sponsorship might add a quarter of the planet's population to our user base; if this is "world domination", we'll want none of it.

--
Eric S. Raymond

Related Stories:
ZDNET UK: Linux to become official OS of communist China (Nov 10, 1999)
Linux.Net.CN: Richard Stallman in China (Nov 06, 1999)
BW: GraphOn...to Offer Chinese Private Enterprise, Government & Education...Migration to Linux.... (Nov 02, 1999)


Index Mode   |   Flat Mode   |   Thread Mode   |   Thread Flat  
  Talkback(s) Name  and Date
So what if the Chinese government did en ...   This article speaks volumes   
Dave Cole
Nov 11, 1999, 04:22:49
 
You apparently didn't read the comme ...   Uh, Dave...   
Robert Crawford
Nov 11, 1999, 04:34:13
 
and Linux is good. ...   Good things are for human   
S. Rabet
Nov 11, 1999, 04:35:25
 
What if a third world country proclaimed ...   What if?   
Eric
Nov 11, 1999, 04:39:41
 
OK, I admire you disclose the dilema beh ...   While China is chaning, you can't afford to st   
Xiong Jiang
Nov 11, 1999, 04:49:04
 
What Eric is trying to say is that he do ...   Dave, you missed the point...   
Digital Wokan
Nov 11, 1999, 04:49:54
 
I know them personally and see almost ev ...   Fact 1: TurboLinux Chinese version addons was deve   
Xiong Jiang
Nov 11, 1999, 04:52:30
 
Regarding paranoia, a little goes a long ...   Re: This article speaks volumes   
Codifex Maximus
Nov 11, 1999, 04:55:43
 
While I'm pretty down on China's ...   Doesn't speak for me   
Devin Carraway
Nov 11, 1999, 04:58:33
 
I hope the article your referring to is  ...   What are you smoking?   
Karl Morgan
Nov 11, 1999, 04:59:04
 
He must speak only by himself cause no e ...   He must speak only for himself!   
MiguelE
Nov 11, 1999, 05:01:03
 
This article comes from ZD. If you want  ...   This is ZDNet carried by yahoo   
bjc
Nov 11, 1999, 05:06:18
 
I can hardly believe Dave Cole's com ...   Thank you ESR   
Brian
Nov 11, 1999, 05:08:30
 
Not to go McArthian on your ass or anyth ...   Do you disagree with his viewpoint?   
Bryan Seigneur
Nov 11, 1999, 05:19:16
 
ZDNET is already on my trash list. It&#3 ...   sensationalism   
Anthony Christopher
Nov 11, 1999, 05:22:35
 
Living in "Communist China" has given me ...   Gratitutious China Bashing   
Karl Juhnke
Nov 11, 1999, 05:33:11
 
Newsflash:  Apparently the rumour that f ...   Linux undermines communism   
Darrel Yurychuk
Nov 11, 1999, 05:37:28
 
A long time ago, a bunch of people were  ...   I OPPOSE FRANCE FROM ASSOCIATING WITH OPEN SOURCE   
Anonymous Coward
Nov 11, 1999, 05:39:31
 
 What the hell is going on ? What the he ...   what the heck   
shad0w
Nov 11, 1999, 05:52:50
 
Mr. Deng, the Chinese Communist Head, on ...   Shame On You Eric   
Jianmang Li
Nov 11, 1999, 06:17:29
 
ESR, you *really* need a lesson in freed ...   ESR, get a clue!   
Jose Estrada
Nov 11, 1999, 06:37:20
 
If China made Linux its official OS, it  ...   Please Eric... get your foot out of my mouth.   
John Eikenbery
Nov 11, 1999, 06:42:43
 
China kills Catholic priests, outlaws re ...   ESR is right!   
Chip
Nov 11, 1999, 06:50:25
 
Standard purposeful oversight by you &#3 ...   Re: Fact 1: TurboLinux Chinese version addons was   
Matt Dezern
Nov 11, 1999, 06:52:55
 
	First off, ESR may be right that this o ...   ESR is missing the point   
Eugene Koontz
Nov 11, 1999, 06:59:08
 
I think all of you have missed the point ...   All of you have missed the point!   
Matt Perry
Nov 11, 1999, 07:09:06
 
Greetings,Eric misses the point.  This i ...   Would be a WONDERFUL thing!   
Cyberfox
Nov 11, 1999, 07:09:17
 
It is amazing. Linux is about freedom. A ...   Why hate anybody   
Anindya Biswas
Nov 11, 1999, 07:17:52
 
The GPL gives equal rights to everbody,  ...   Eric vs the FSF   
Sleepy
Nov 11, 1999, 07:25:25
 
I am niether for or against communism, I ...   Don't speak for me   
Roger Irwin
Nov 11, 1999, 07:37:55
 
Because China is such an oppressive gove ...   Will China fork Linux?   
Shaun Savage
Nov 11, 1999, 07:54:02
 
Just point me to any country that is not ...   ESR - The world is black and white but all I see i   
Chinese Linux User
Nov 11, 1999, 08:12:06
 
The only reason China likes Linux is tha ...   re: Will China fork Linux?   
Jose Estrada
Nov 11, 1999, 08:30:21
 
...that's one very important reason  ...   Linux IS consistent with communist principles...   
Dave H.
Nov 11, 1999, 08:33:47
 
Internet operating systems are one of th ...   Consider this.   
Carl Beaudry
Nov 11, 1999, 09:07:41
 
When I read the excerpt in Linux Today I ...   Totally disappointed...   
Kelvin
Nov 11, 1999, 09:23:46
 
very well spoken, indeed. First thing wi ...   Re: ESR - The world is black and white but all I s   
Michele Baldessari
Nov 11, 1999, 10:03:10
 
I think your comment merits an apology t ...   Re: Will China fork Linux?   
Roger Irwin
Nov 11, 1999, 10:14:21
 
I think "closed source" in wich you can  ...   What seems to be the problem here...?   
Luka
Nov 11, 1999, 10:19:56
 
What Linux really need is more and more  ...   Keep coding, stop talking so much   
Arty
Nov 11, 1999, 10:38:56
 
If ESR is (as he seems to be) a right wi ...   Right wing Linux ?   
jgs
Nov 11, 1999, 10:43:01
 
This anti-communism fixation is a very p ...   Re: Thank you ESR   
Roger Irwin
Nov 11, 1999, 10:54:14
 
How could you be pro-democracy but not k ...   Roger Irwin, You are a fake   
hsiao
Nov 11, 1999, 11:04:06
 

That Eric would feel dirty by insulted  ...   Communist Mass Murder   
Raymond Moyers
Nov 11, 1999, 12:33:42
 
Chinese governent makes panda official m ...   Just plain illogic   
Julian Morrison
Nov 11, 1999, 12:41:16
 
esr seems to be paranoid. i dont see any ...   dont speak for me   
scud
Nov 11, 1999, 13:24:09
 
The Problem is NOT that the Red Chinese  ...   exploitable weakness by FUDders   
Steve Poling
Nov 11, 1999, 13:25:31
 
[snip]
There is one thing for sure, we w ...   Linux in China   
Mick Voase
Nov 11, 1999, 13:25:58
 
ESR: Don't you ever dare to presume  ...   That bigot doesn't speak for me.   
Christian
Nov 11, 1999, 13:38:49
 
  I'm sorry, but that rhetorical flo ...   Speak for who?   
Daniel
Nov 11, 1999, 13:43:59
 
Eric, go read the history. Many of us th ...   History and Culture   
Yurj
Nov 11, 1999, 14:09:41
 
China adopt also the Metric/ISO system.  ...   Evidence   
Evidence
Nov 11, 1999, 14:16:57
 
Nothing in communism assumes totalitaria ...   You're way off here.   
Doug
Nov 11, 1999, 14:22:31
 
Many of the responses have really  cover ...   Political Linkage? Not!   
Joe Kaplenk
Nov 11, 1999, 14:30:25
 
I speak only for myself, but I feel it&# ...   China: Government & People   
Art Smith
Nov 11, 1999, 14:30:25
 
Communism is going to drag the "free wor ...   The McCarthy syndrom   
J. Sun
Nov 11, 1999, 14:31:36
 
Actually, Eric, I would rather you didnt ...   Actually, please dont talk to me   
Miles Thompson
Nov 11, 1999, 14:41:08
 
Any1 ever been in China?Then you know ho ...   Free Software may however save the (pirat) CD Indu   
Johnix
Nov 11, 1999, 14:47:03
 
ESR states: It may be too much to hope t ...   The Crux of the Matter   
borg
Nov 11, 1999, 15:00:43
 
Waco, Ruby Ridge, the tens of thousands  ...   Chip: right, but don't forget to include...   
Jerry Kreps
Nov 11, 1999, 15:35:53
 
Dear Mr. Raymond:Sorry, but you are WRON ...   Free as a Speech, not as Free Beer   
Adriano Manuel Galano Diez
Nov 11, 1999, 15:36:05
 
ESR, you're confusing the Open Sourc ...   Open Source != Crapitalism   
Crapitalist
Nov 11, 1999, 15:41:50
 
It's really stupid to ban the chines ...   Freedom?   
Robin Johansson
Nov 11, 1999, 15:48:18
 
Subject says it all, really.  I'm ju ...   Don't Speak For Me, Eric   
Bryant Durrell
Nov 11, 1999, 16:06:01
 
Go to China. See how it is there. Then c ...   Re: Open Source != Crapitalism   
Fatboy
Nov 11, 1999, 16:07:22
 
This is the most stupid (with passion, n ...   The most stupid argument I have seen from Eric!   
Oliver
Nov 11, 1999, 16:30:26
 
It's not that I'm against commun ...   Goverment is the real problem.   
Christopher Smith
Nov 11, 1999, 16:40:14
 
GNU/Linux is free for anybody to use if  ...   Linux effects on PRC   
zenray
Nov 11, 1999, 16:48:48
 
oneandTwo ...   Two of Cuba   
Communist
Nov 11, 1999, 16:55:03
 
As I read thru these comments I'm ki ...   Give him a break!   
Chad Lauritsen
Nov 11, 1999, 17:02:31
 
There is a reason to have this public di ...   In defense of ESR   
Rahul Sinha
Nov 11, 1999, 17:04:23
 
Wow.  Someone dares to speak his opposit ...   WRT Idiocy here   
Eric the .5b
Nov 11, 1999, 17:04:56
 
ESR, you *really* need a lesson in freed ...   Re: ESR, get a clue!   
PieceMaker
Nov 11, 1999, 17:07:35
 
Eric,You're having a bad day.  Next  ...   First, Aim!   
Howard B. Golden
Nov 11, 1999, 17:12:33
 
It's crazy to think that linux shoul ...   I can't believe it.........   

Nov 11, 1999, 17:19:06
 
1) Whoever gave you the right to speak f ...   Don't thrust your views on others   
seawood
Nov 11, 1999, 17:20:15
 
Shaun Savage: "The only reason China lik ...   This is a Good Thing(tm)   
Someone
Nov 11, 1999, 17:29:01
 
hsaio:Well said.  And if you are or were ...   Re: Roger Irwin, You are a fake   
Michael A. Hobson
Nov 11, 1999, 17:34:13
 
  I think the complaints are more about  ...   Re: Give him a break!   
Daniel
Nov 11, 1999, 17:35:23
 
Especially the clamoring for ESR to shut ...   Re: WRT Idiocy here   
Daniel
Nov 11, 1999, 17:38:03
 
Citizens of the United States don't  ...   pot...kettle...black   
Brian Strand
Nov 11, 1999, 17:40:51
 
really ridiculous.

Linux adopted by Chi ...   Chinese, Indians, Mexicans, etc   
James Lee
Nov 11, 1999, 17:54:12
 
The point is that media is trying to lin ...   You are missing the point...   
Carlos Betancourt
Nov 11, 1999, 17:59:12
 
Hey ESR, you deride companies that use t ...   Be consistent, ESR   
Brian Gue
Nov 11, 1999, 18:03:06
 
Eric S. Raymond writes:It may be too muc ...   veiled criticism of RMS?   
seawood
Nov 11, 1999, 18:27:19
 
OK, it's a false story. We know abou ...   This Article is Unfortunate   
Bruce Perens
Nov 11, 1999, 18:28:37
 
It's amazing to see how many closed- ...   Pathetic!   
Scared
Nov 11, 1999, 18:37:22
 
Many people here are missing the point.  ...   open source != capitalism?   
Ivo
Nov 11, 1999, 19:02:23
 
Several posts cite the credo 'From e ...   'From each according to his ability...'   
PieceMaker
Nov 11, 1999, 19:03:08
 
I do not want ESR to speak for me, and I ...   Don't speak for me, ESR   
Kragen Sitaker
Nov 11, 1999, 19:04:23
 
Let's get our verbage correct. Capit ...   Capitalism versus communism   
David Johnson
Nov 11, 1999, 19:13:15
 
Did any of you actually read ESR's l ...   Did any of you actually read the letter?   
David Johnson
Nov 11, 1999, 19:31:23
 
OK, people, now back in March, I linked  ...   MS Venus vs. Nuwa and Linux etc.   
Pasty Drone
Nov 11, 1999, 19:39:02
 
Let's get our verbage correct. Capit ...   Re: Capitalism versus communism   
PieceMaker
Nov 11, 1999, 20:15:48
 
it doesn't matter to me whether Chin ...   Who cares...   
Xunil Ung
Nov 11, 1999, 21:45:01
 
... is MUCH MORE embarassing than any of ...   To me, Linux's association with right-wing pin   
David Horacek
Nov 11, 1999, 22:15:25
 

	In some senses, China is a more extrem ...   Political communism, not so much economic   
JCA
Nov 11, 1999, 22:20:09
 
I don't want to live in China. I am  ...   Long Live the FSF!   
Louis Aragon
Nov 11, 1999, 22:28:23
 
I agree that the open source movement an ...   linux in china and the communist government   
John
Nov 12, 1999, 03:42:10
 
I agree wholeheartedly.  The communist i ...   Agreed   
Alex Bedworth
Nov 12, 1999, 04:25:38
 
"In the past,I have avoided presuming to ...   Sigh.....   
Henri Schlereth
Nov 12, 1999, 06:16:38
 
E.S.R opinion is very old. China has bee ...   Software is not Political   
SHI wenjiang
Nov 12, 1999, 13:59:57
 
I just want to make two points.1.- Linux ...   Irrelevant Arguments for FUD   
Carlos Vermejo
Nov 12, 1999, 17:48:12
 
Doesn't look like it.  The quote ESR ...   DO YOU PEOPLE UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU READ??&#   
Alex L
Nov 12, 1999, 18:01:19
 
I thought thats what the free ment in fr ...   Freedom   
Mark Dickie
Nov 12, 1999, 22:31:08
 
I think the response is quite unequivoca ...   Re Alex L: DO YOU ETC.   
Hans Arp
Nov 13, 1999, 01:21:57
 
I even had the dubious pleasure of havin ...   And so it goes....   
Henri Schlereth
Nov 13, 1999, 06:03:21
 
  The most impontant thing we want to ge ...   China government regard FREE as no need to pay onl   
Shih
Nov 13, 1999, 17:44:45
 
Raymond you have always been among the p ...   Eric S. Raymond -- Communist China adopts Linux   
s chung
Nov 14, 1999, 15:15:54
 
Mr. Raymond's paranoia has gone a bi ...   Utterly useless and worthless arguments   
Rishi
Nov 14, 1999, 16:21:54
 
I am a chinese in P.R.C, a Linux fans th ...   Linux and China   
anonymous
Nov 14, 1999, 19:38:40
 
  Communism works great if you know what ...   The first communists   
James
Nov 14, 1999, 23:33:14
 
"Yesterday there was a story claiming th ...   ESR speaks for who?   
James Henstridge
Nov 15, 1999, 01:02:11
 
OK,OK,OK.I get the point of the attacks  ...   Ever heard of P.R.?   
Low Rider
Nov 15, 1999, 02:26:00
 
"There is a strong identification betwee ...   China is changing, so hold your flames   
bgonza
Nov 15, 1999, 05:22:02
 
Today's China can hardly be called C ...   How much do you really know about China?   
George Finch
Nov 15, 1999, 18:55:08
 
Let china use linux and feel the spirit  ...   china & linux   

Nov 15, 1999, 23:04:00
 
I don't doubt for one moment that Ja ...   The People's OS   
John Tucker
Nov 16, 1999, 03:31:12
 
ESR showed his narrow mindedness. From p ...   The Arrogance of ESR   
North
Nov 16, 1999, 12:07:52
 
Eric S.Raymond, as a good american, beli ...   China adopts Linux   
M.J.Medjeral
Nov 16, 1999, 14:27:01
 
What would you expect, the FRENCH to do  ...   Re: Fact 1: TurboLinux Chinese version addons was   
Mike Battle
Nov 16, 1999, 14:33:07
 
Now, THERE'S a GOOD POINT!  Do you t ...   Re: China government regard FREE as no need to pay   
Mike Battle
Nov 16, 1999, 14:57:08
 
By Communist i mean "from each according ...   Linux is Communist in the Genuine Sense of the Wor   
Emil Vaughan
Nov 17, 1999, 23:42:16
 
If China moves towards Linux it's fo ...   foreign politics (US and China) and internal polit   
claudio
Nov 18, 1999, 01:56:08
 
Has anyone ever met them?Obviously they  ...   who are these people that think that Linux is a Co   
jkr
Nov 18, 1999, 10:57:18
 
Like I believe that it would do everybod ...   Am I at Slashdot or something?   
Alex Yurchenko
Nov 18, 1999, 20:38:30
 
I was used to respect him, but after rea ...   Erik sucks   
piggie
Nov 19, 1999, 00:58:44
 
First of all, Eric is Eric and one can&# ...   Re: Erik sucks   
Lucy Liberal
Nov 19, 1999, 11:07:07
 
so please continue to avoid presuming to ...   ESR - you don't speak for me,   
Matan
Nov 23, 1999, 09:29:14
 
Whom does Raymond mean when he writes ". ...   China   
Paul Schenker
Nov 24, 1999, 23:28:37
 
First of all - I don't think a state ...   Chinese murderers or american murderers - what'   
Penty Wenngren
Nov 26, 1999, 15:09:02
 
"No matter that such official Chinese go ...   Rebuttal   
Kent Nguyen
Nov 26, 1999, 16:59:00
 
Eric has been brainwashed by Microsoft : ...   Re: who are these people that think that Linux is   
Kent Nguyen
Nov 26, 1999, 17:23:33
 
I certainly hope that Eric Raymond would ...   identification of Free Source with Captialism   
Dennis G. Allard
Nov 28, 1999, 07:16:09
 
Dennis, what "repressive practices of Ca ...   What "repressive" practices?   
Dan Falk
Nov 30, 1999, 22:53:14
 
Bhopal? Miners in South America?Child la ...   re: What   
jkr
Dec 2, 1999, 23:44:26
 
 I've had many disagreements with Er ...   Very good ESR!   
Timothy
Dec 5, 1999, 02:39:28
 
Hi Tim,>If Linux ever becomes associated ...   Re: Very good ESR!   
Goetz Kluge
Jan 11, 2000, 14:47:49
 
As for the "recent" news on Red Flag in  ...   Re(2): Very good ESR!   
Goetz Kluge
Jan 13, 2000, 10:06:56
 
And furthur more, I would hate anyone to ...   Re: identification of Free Source with Captialism   
Aphex
Mar 14, 2000, 02:40:41
 
Yes now we have got the freedom to expre ...   Re: Linux effects on PRC   
Ignatius
Mar 28, 2000, 11:14:51
 
Jesus, man! What do you think our govern ...   Repressive Government vs.   
Yossarian4010
Jul 29, 2001, 03:47:41
 
Uh, China isn't communist. Its state ...   Re: Re: ESR, get a clue!   
Eudaimonia
Apr 23, 2005, 22:26:07
 
Most persons bandy about the word 'f ...   Freedom Clue Train   
Pierre Rogers
Jun 6, 2005, 09:22:44
 
In reality Governments around the world  ...   government beats non government   
julius love
Nov 2, 2005, 02:46:41
 
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