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:Stallman on Qt, the GPL, KDE, and GNOME
Stallman on Qt, the GPL, KDE, and GNOME
Sep 5, 2000, 12 :33 UTC (198 Talkback[s]) (137173 reads)

(Other stories by Richard Stallman)

By Richard Stallman

Making Qt available under the GPL makes it legal to take an existing GPL-covered program and adapt it to work with Qt. It also provides a way to resolve one of the free software community's long-standing problems, the problem of the ethical and legal status of KDE.

The design of KDE was based on a fundamental mistake: use of the Qt library, which at the time was non-free software. Despite the good intentions of the KDE developers, and despite the fact that the code of KDE itself was free software, KDE could never be part of a completely free operating system as long as it needed a non-free program to function.

But the KDE developers were not concerned about this problem, and recruited helpers who shared their views. As KDE/Qt developed, it posed a growing risk to the progress of free software. The risk was that KDE/Qt would become so established that most of the user community would treat it as indispensable--disregarding the fact that this meant using non-free software. Widespread acceptance of one crucial non-free program would encourage a general willingness to accept non-free software, meaning fewer people who might have the will to help replace KDE/Qt with something entirely free. And that job would require catching up with a large head start, just as we did in replacing Unix with GNU and GNU/Linux. To be back in that situation was a discouraging prospect.

But we were not there yet, and it was clear we should take preventive measures before we got there. In 1997 we launched two parallel projects designed to avoid that situation: the GNU desktop (GNOME), which aimed to provide a completely different alternative graphical interface, and Harmony, a free replacement for Qt. The reason for starting two projects in parallel was redundancy: any project may fail, and the risk was big enough to warrant two simultaneous approaches to preventing it.

GNOME caught on, and by 1999 it was a clear success. Then Qt was rereleased under a new license, the QPL, which made it free software. This solved the principal problem of KDE/Qt, the fact that part of it was non-free. But a secondary problem remained: the problem of license inconsistency.

The QPL is incompatible with the GPL, which means that Qt and GPL-covered modules cannot legally be combined, unless the developers of one module or the other grant an exception to permit it. The KDE developers certainly intend their GPL-covered code to be used with Qt, and one can argue that by telling you to link it with Qt they have implicitly given you permission to do that. But they did not formally state this exception in the KDE source code itself, and it is not comfortable to rely on implicit permission for something like this.

In addition, in some cases code was copied into KDE from existing GPL-covered modules whose copyright holders had not given special permission. (Only the copyright holders can give extra permission to do things that the GPL does not permit.) That is a real violation of the GPL. Because of this, and the overall lack of an explicit exception, the legal status of KDE remained clouded.

Qt 2.2 provides the basis to solve this secondary problem, but a certain amount of cleaning up will be needed to fix it thoroughly. Misusing a GPL-covered program permanently forfeits the right to distribute the code at all. Such situations have occurred in KDE, and now they ought to be cleaned up.

It would be a good idea for all of the authors of code in KDE (more precisely, all of the copyright holders) to make a clear statement that linking their code with Qt in the past was done with their permission, thus assuring existing KDE users that they have not forfeited distribution rights to that KDE code.

Also, where code was copied from other GPL-covered programs, their copyright holders need to be asked for forgiveness. To lead the way, the FSF hereby grants this forgiveness for all code that is copyright FSF. More precisely, those who as of September 4, 2000 have used some FSF code in violation of the GPL solely by linking it with Qt, and thus have forfeited the right to use that code under the GPL, will once again have full GPL permissions to use that code upon switching to a GPL-covered version of Qt. I appeal to all the other copyright holders of affected code to grant similar forgiveness and thus help resolve the situation quickly.

Soon KDE should be properly based on a GPL-covered version of Qt, and the Free Software Movement will be able to think of KDE/Qt as a contribution and not as a problem. Meanwhile, I think there is no reason to work on another package which is equivalent to Qt. If you want something like Qt, use Qt.

But GNOME is here, and is not going to disappear. GNOME and KDE will remain two rival desktops, unless some day they can be merged in some way. Until then, the GNU Project is going to support its own team vigorously. Go get 'em, gnomes!

Copyright 2000 Richard Stallman
Verbatim copying and distribution of this entire article are permitted in any medium provided this notice and the copyright notice are preserved.

Related Stories:
Trolltech's Eirik Eng and KDE's Matthias Ettrich on Qt and the GPL(Sep 04, 2000)
LinuxPlanet: Trolltech to Release Qt Under GPL(Sep 04, 2000)
KDE: Official Response to GNOME Foundation(Sep 01, 2000)


Index Mode   |   Flat Mode   |   Thread Mode   |   Thread Flat  
  Talkback(s) Name  and Date
What? Or whom? ...   Go get?   
Doug Bostrom
Sep 5, 2000, 12:59:30
 
You and everyone else - the potential us ...   Re: Go get?   
belzagar
Sep 5, 2000, 13:09:07
 
Ironically, I switched to GNOME about a  ...   Got GNOME?   
Art Cancro
Sep 5, 2000, 13:16:58
 
> You and everyone else - the potential  ...   Re: Re: Go get?   
blowfish
Sep 5, 2000, 13:22:51
 
I wish I had tallied how many posters sa ...   Hmmm.   
Dean Pannell (a.k.a. dinotrac)
Sep 5, 2000, 13:28:35
 
RMS is absolutely right to not accept no ...   Eternal vigilance of GPL violations   
tony stanco
Sep 5, 2000, 13:45:54
 
> I wish I had tallied how many posters  ...   Re: Hmmm.   
Ookaze BioACobol
Sep 5, 2000, 13:49:51
 
I have never heard of a different reason ...   Re: Hmmm.   
Jeremy S.
Sep 5, 2000, 13:53:12
 
> I wish I had tallied how many posters  ...   Re: Hmmm.   
screech
Sep 5, 2000, 13:55:57
 
Seems as if all future programming books ...   Are we lawyers or programmers?   
georg
Sep 5, 2000, 13:56:59
 
Hi Dean,

I don't think the M stan ...   Re: Hmmm.   
Dave Whitinger
Sep 5, 2000, 13:57:49
 
RMS had a chance to be gracious in victo ...   Missed opportunity   
Alan W. Irwin
Sep 5, 2000, 13:59:44
 
> I wish I had tallied how many posters  ...   Re: Hmmm.   
blowfish
Sep 5, 2000, 14:01:02
 
I have never disagreed that GNOME was st ...   re:Hmmm   
Peter R
Sep 5, 2000, 14:02:06
 
RMS says "But GNOME is here, and is not  ...   Competition is good   
Chris Hedemark
Sep 5, 2000, 14:03:07
 
As a user and developer of KDE and Qt ap ...   Go get 'em KDE!   
Jeffrey S. Sharp
Sep 5, 2000, 14:04:07
 
> I wish I had tallied how many posters  ...   Re: Hmmm.   
Joeri Sebrechts
Sep 5, 2000, 14:04:25
 
Yeah right

Many of the KDE developers ...   Free Software authors begging for forgiveness?   
Toofan
Sep 5, 2000, 14:10:08
 
No, read RMS's article again: gnome  ...   Re: Hmmm.   
Ale
Sep 5, 2000, 14:10:22
 
Gentlemen!
I just want an OS that is ST ...   Dopey dispute   
Bob Ross
Sep 5, 2000, 14:13:51
 
You should clarify what you mean by an a ...   Re: Hmmm.   
VDP
Sep 5, 2000, 14:15:03
 
Ditto.  If you're going to chastize  ...   Re: Re: Hmmm.   
Jonathan Abbey
Sep 5, 2000, 14:16:21
 
I think Mr. Stallman's piece was per ...   Gracious in victory   
Robin Miller
Sep 5, 2000, 14:21:16
 
> I wish I had tallied how many posters  ...   Re: Hmmm.   
Anil Wang
Sep 5, 2000, 14:24:37
 
It strikes me that dealing with Stallman ...   Oh well...   
Rob Crawford
Sep 5, 2000, 14:28:51
 
I just can't figure out why RMS wrot ...   why did he write this???   
Wolfgang
Sep 5, 2000, 14:30:02
 
Yep - but you must admit he is amazyingl ...   Re: Missed opportunity   
Steve Wilson
Sep 5, 2000, 14:30:41
 
Richard,



You speak often of Free  ...   Stallman's way or the highway?   
Bill Cleveland
Sep 5, 2000, 14:32:48
 
"Also, where code was copied from other  ...   Kandalf's useful tip   
Kandalf
Sep 5, 2000, 14:35:42
 
> I have never disagreed that GNOME was  ...   Re: re:Hmmm   
blowfish
Sep 5, 2000, 14:37:09
 
Always talking about freedom, but is res ...   Strange guy, this RMS   
just a guy
Sep 5, 2000, 14:39:17
 
Once again Richard Stallman, has display ...   The self righteous RMS problem   
Bruce Buskill
Sep 5, 2000, 14:40:00
 
> RMS is absolutely right to not accept  ...   Re: Eternal vigilance of GPL violations   
Stuart Ballard
Sep 5, 2000, 14:41:18
 
In case anyone doubts this, it's abs ...   Re: Kandalf's useful tip   
ac
Sep 5, 2000, 14:45:28
 
Sorry to disappoint you, Dave.

A coup ...   Re: Re: Hmmm.   
Dean Pannell (a.k.a. dinotrac)
Sep 5, 2000, 14:45:34
 
> > I wish I had tallied how many poster ...   Re: Re: Hmmm.   
blowfish
Sep 5, 2000, 14:47:38
 
RMS states that they started two project ...   anti-kde and pro-kde   
drew Roberts
Sep 5, 2000, 14:48:17
 
The real problem with the QPL/GPL violat ...   The saddest thing about this piece   
Shane Simmons
Sep 5, 2000, 14:50:54
 
In reality, although RMS has a theoretic ...   Mostly theoretical, but valuable   
David Neeley
Sep 5, 2000, 14:55:27
 
I do agree with you, start programming a ...   Re: Are we lawyers or programmers?   
Yves Van Belle
Sep 5, 2000, 14:56:40
 
Each time an "improvement" (in the sense ...   Problem, again?   
Jindra Vavruska
Sep 5, 2000, 14:56:52
 
Though i share the gladness of everyone  ...   Think, RMS, think!   
Lars Doelle
Sep 5, 2000, 15:02:02
 
I'm using Gtk+/Gnome since its early ...   Redundancy, from a user point of view   
Claudemir Todo Bom
Sep 5, 2000, 15:02:53
 
Dean, 

Simply put, the underlying iss ...   Re: Re: Re: Hmmm.   
Dave Whitinger
Sep 5, 2000, 15:06:07
 
> From RMS's standpoint it IS a figh ...   Re: Re: Hmmm.   
Jindra Vavruska
Sep 5, 2000, 15:18:35
 
"However, I don't think that all my  ...   Re: Re: Hmmm.   
TheBlueJackal
Sep 5, 2000, 15:19:00
 
> In case anyone doubts this, it's a ...   Re: Re: Kandalf's useful tip   
blowfish
Sep 5, 2000, 15:23:08
 
Did it fade out with the wind?

I thin ...   What about Harmony?   
Frank M. Marzoa
Sep 5, 2000, 15:27:14
 
> Simply put, the underlying issue here  ...   Re: Re: Re: Re: Hmmm.   
Dean Pannell (a.k.a. dinotrac)
Sep 5, 2000, 15:34:46
 
Leave the person behind who wrote gcc an ...   Re: Oh well...   
bbibber
Sep 5, 2000, 15:34:53
 
First QT was propietary, it wasn't g ...   forgiveness? And after that? Joining Gnome   
Raphinou
Sep 5, 2000, 15:34:59
 
The members of the Gnome Foundation are  ...   Re: Re: Eternal vigilance of GPL violations   
Jered Heeschen
Sep 5, 2000, 15:37:06
 
> They were too aware of this problem. T ...   Think, Lars Doelle, think!   
Svartalf
Sep 5, 2000, 15:44:43
 
"The design of KDE was based on a fundam ...   What RMS *meant* to say, promotion vs. support & c   
Gerry Giese
Sep 5, 2000, 15:52:01
 
get a clue blowfish!

>>Why everything ...   Re: Re: Re: Hmmm.   
TheBlueJackal
Sep 5, 2000, 15:54:04
 
So, my point is: It's easier to keep ...   Re: Redundancy, from a user point of view   
buggie
Sep 5, 2000, 15:58:46
 

>The corporations (presumably the ones ...   Re: Re: Eternal vigilance of GPL violations   
tony stanco
Sep 5, 2000, 15:59:23
 
This, uhm, is one of the great things ab ...   Re: Re: Re: Eternal vigilance of GPL violations   
Eric Gibson
Sep 5, 2000, 16:07:38
 
The piece by RMS was unnecessary and ung ...   Divest the FSF (Dean Pannell)   
john
Sep 5, 2000, 16:08:19
 
>Let's dump RMS, GNU/Debian, RH/GNOM ...   Goodbye blowfish!   
mattwb
Sep 5, 2000, 16:11:37
 
Just something for the RMS/Gnome bashers ...   RMS, GNOME KDE and Everything...   
Jim B
Sep 5, 2000, 16:15:56
 
Oh, the insidious vileness of the evil R ...   Evil   
grouch
Sep 5, 2000, 16:36:55
 
> >Let's dump RMS, GNU/Debian, RH/GN ...   Re: Goodbye blowfish!   
dvdeug
Sep 5, 2000, 16:46:40
 
> with KDE being in a legal no-man's ...   Re: Think, Lars Doelle, think!   
Matthias Ettrich
Sep 5, 2000, 16:47:57
 
To give Enlightenment credit, E alone is ...   Re: Got GNOME?   
Ben
Sep 5, 2000, 16:52:45
 
> Lincoln said to her, "every man has hi ...   Thank your for the Lincoln story   
Dean Pannell (a.k.a. dinotrac)
Sep 5, 2000, 16:54:10
 
Can't we all just get along???

Th ...   KumBayYa! (sp)   
Todd Warner
Sep 5, 2000, 16:57:36
 
> > In case anyone doubts this, it's ...   Re: Re: Re: Kandalf's useful tip   
Jonathan Abbey
Sep 5, 2000, 17:01:51
 
I have had it up to my eyeballs with the ...   Freedom vs RMS Dictatorship   
Donald Goodwin
Sep 5, 2000, 17:15:40
 
KDE always was free software, and this c ...   GPL is a nasty virus   
Tony Kimball
Sep 5, 2000, 17:35:28
 
In defence of RMS, all he is saying here ...   Kum ba ya, M'lord! Kum ba ya!   
Rodney Quaye
Sep 5, 2000, 17:41:43
 
I hope that you stand by your principle  ...   Re: Re: Redundancy, from a user point of view   
Claudemir
Sep 5, 2000, 17:42:12
 
Some of the comments here are very criti ...   KDE was about cool but not free software   
Simon Conrad-Armes
Sep 5, 2000, 17:54:31
 
> Also granted, current-release Gnome ap ...   Re: Go get 'em KDE!   
khalid
Sep 5, 2000, 18:23:27
 
There are so many posts that are blatanl ...   Halloween   
Peter R
Sep 5, 2000, 18:24:02
 
> Leave the person behind who wrote gcc  ...   Re: Re: Oh well...   
Robert Crawford
Sep 5, 2000, 18:33:19
 
I don't think RMS is at all like Sta ...   Re: Freedom vs RMS Dictatorship   
john
Sep 5, 2000, 18:35:24
 
Gee, Richard, can't I just do a few  ...   Forgiveness   
Prelate
Sep 5, 2000, 18:38:49
 
I always had no strong feelings when it  ...   Great, go get'em gnomes   
Andy Hertzfold
Sep 5, 2000, 18:49:19
 
Richard,

Some say "you cannot have it ...   Quo usque tandem abutere, Richard, patientia nostr   
Fred Mobach
Sep 5, 2000, 18:58:57
 
'Go get em' Is a figure of speec ...   Re: Re: Re: Go get?   
blah
Sep 5, 2000, 19:10:50
 
... developers asking forgiveness for wr ...   Finally proof! RMS one card short of full deck....   
Kybernator
Sep 5, 2000, 19:45:40
 
Okay, I'm on the verge of losing it  ...   Forgiveness?!?   
Anonymous Coward
Sep 5, 2000, 19:48:38
 
> Who the hell does Richard think he is  ...   Re: Forgiveness?!?   
Daniel
Sep 5, 2000, 20:04:58
 
> You'd prefer him to start a campai ...   Re: Re: Forgiveness?!?   
Robert
Sep 5, 2000, 20:29:20
 
The linux community cracks me up. The ON ...   The Ironic Linux Movement   
Surge
Sep 5, 2000, 20:34:08
 
If it's religious to enforce your co ...   Religion and the GPL   
Stefan Davis
Sep 5, 2000, 20:58:29
 


You can about RMS what you want, but ...   Re: Great, go get'em gnomes   
Kay
Sep 5, 2000, 21:17:14
 
Sheesh, I just get back from vacation an ...   Go on vacation, and look what happens...   
kgf
Sep 5, 2000, 21:34:14
 
I believe that if it wasn't for the  ...   KDE's license   
Jim Barber
Sep 5, 2000, 21:35:19
 
Well..
i remember, i read two Icaza mai ...   Re: Re: Hmmm.   
Ramiro
Sep 5, 2000, 21:45:53
 


> In my opinion what makes KDE ugly  ...   Re: Re: Go get 'em KDE!   
Andrew B. Arthur
Sep 5, 2000, 22:17:25
 
I always liked to think of the GNOME vs  ...   It's like Emacs and Vi   
Levi
Sep 5, 2000, 22:18:37
 
Death to the GPL.  Long live public doma ...   Death to the GPL. Long live public domain.   
pdMan
Sep 5, 2000, 22:31:19
 
> what the hell is that? fud tactics? 
 ...   Re: Re: Re: Hmmm.   
a@bc
Sep 5, 2000, 22:53:02
 
From the comments I've read, it' ...   The end of the thread.   
Stefan Davis
Sep 5, 2000, 22:55:53
 
Thank you, grouch, for the wonderful pos ...   Re: Evil   
Chris Rasten
Sep 5, 2000, 23:20:33
 
Why can't anyone see that RMS and FS ...   RMS and FSF   
Certified_Genius
Sep 5, 2000, 23:21:24
 
> get a clue blowfish!
> 
Get real!  L ...   Re: Re: Re: Re: Hmmm.   
blowfish
Sep 5, 2000, 23:46:17
 
Some people think that KDE's team re ...   GPL and "subtle envy/my way or highway" problem   
Nikolai Bezroukov
Sep 5, 2000, 23:47:27
 
> >Let's dump RMS, GNU/Debian, RH/GN ...   Re: Goodbye blowfish!   
blowfish
Sep 5, 2000, 23:51:32
 
To the best of my understanding, KDE con ...   FSF has nothing to   
Duncan
Sep 5, 2000, 23:59:12
 
> > >Let's dump RMS, GNU/Debian, RH/ ...   Re: Re: Goodbye blowfish!   
blowfish
Sep 6, 2000, 00:08:21
 
> > > In case anyone doubts this, it&#39 ...   Re: Re: Re: Re: Kandalf's useful tip   
blowfish
Sep 6, 2000, 00:19:53
 
> > You'd prefer him to start a camp ...   Re: Re: Re: Forgiveness?!?   
Nick Ives
Sep 6, 2000, 00:21:12
 
  I'm going to ignore most of your p ...   Re: Go on vacation, and look what happens...   
Daniel
Sep 6, 2000, 00:22:03
 
> > Also granted, current-release Gnome  ...   Re: Re: Go get 'em KDE!   
blowfish
Sep 6, 2000, 00:31:45
 
> I don't think RMS is at all like S ...   Re: Re: Freedom vs RMS Dictatorship   
blowfish
Sep 6, 2000, 00:37:57
 
Based on the number of hysterical, knee- ...   Peter R is right   
mattwb
Sep 6, 2000, 01:30:27
 
Tripwire Security abused their rights to ...   RMS' ever changing "requirements"   
Lockdown34
Sep 6, 2000, 01:37:50
 
He is wrong about his stance now. All he ...   GNU/RMS   
Robert
Sep 6, 2000, 01:57:18
 
> He is wrong about his stance now. All  ...   Re: GNU/RMS   
mattwb
Sep 6, 2000, 02:22:17
 
Excuse me. By virtue of linking against  ...   Linking against proprietary libs   
Logic
Sep 6, 2000, 02:32:54
 
Troll Tech releases their code under GPL ...   Richard does know when to stop   
troy
Sep 6, 2000, 03:28:07
 
KDE for stability, GNOME for flash. A GN ...   I use both   
Stinking Pig
Sep 6, 2000, 03:54:52
 
"hulking monstrosity known as Enlightenm ...   Re: Got GNOME? Who care's?   
Dadd0Z
Sep 6, 2000, 04:33:56
 
> As Gnome is funded by RH, and KDE is f ...   Re: Re: Hmmm.   
Herman Justin
Sep 6, 2000, 04:50:31
 
> RMS had a chance to be gracious in vic ...   Re: Missed opportunity   
James E. LaBarre
Sep 6, 2000, 05:00:36
 
> It's like comparing a Porsche Cara ...   Re: Re: re:Hmmm   
James E. LaBarre
Sep 6, 2000, 05:05:47
 
> It seems that the only objective folks ...   Re: Re: Evil   
James E. LaBarre
Sep 6, 2000, 05:30:27
 
Hello All!
I'm your poor, ignorant, ...   word from a 3-day Linux newbie   
Dan Bennett
Sep 6, 2000, 06:25:32
 
RMS has no right to attack non-free soft ...   Truths   
Sleepy
Sep 6, 2000, 07:25:47
 
Funny you say it. I think I'm more p ...   Re: The Ironic Linux Movement   
Andreas Gustafsson
Sep 6, 2000, 07:36:18
 
Hey Linux-Developers,

take a cup of c ...   Go back to coding! NOW!   
Fritz Wepper
Sep 6, 2000, 07:38:30
 
Come on, Stallman. Redhat, driving force ...   Stallman is a zealot   
Huibert Kivits
Sep 6, 2000, 07:49:19
 
> Excuse me. By virtue of linking agains ...   Re: Linking against proprietary libs   
Kent Friis
Sep 6, 2000, 07:57:31
 

> Sometimes I really wish that RMS wou ...   Re: Re: Hmmm.   
EthicsGradient
Sep 6, 2000, 08:01:37
 
Why not you just leave KDE alone?..tsk-t ...   Grrr!   
James Merca
Sep 6, 2000, 08:03:56
 
Welcome to Linux... hope you enjoy the r ...   Re: word from a 3-day Linux newbie   
Squid
Sep 6, 2000, 08:12:33
 
Stallman just wants everything to be his ...   Stallman is the Anti-Bill!   
Ken Lynch
Sep 6, 2000, 08:14:58
 
Interestingly enough, Motif is moving fr ...   Does the argument hold when Motif becomes GPL'   
D.R.Boxhoorn
Sep 6, 2000, 09:41:27
 
Good point.......
The KDE developers cr ...   Re: Are we lawyers or programmers?   
Oscar
Sep 6, 2000, 10:16:28
 
... (words about "Emacs vs vi" deleted)  ...   Re: It's like Emacs and Vi   
Christoph
Sep 6, 2000, 11:34:19
 
Just because a project is started as an  ...   RE: DinoTrac   
Darren
Sep 6, 2000, 12:09:56
 
> > I'd be willing to bet large sums ...   Re: Re: It's like Emacs and Vi   
Daniel
Sep 6, 2000, 12:11:14
 
James E. LaBarre wrote:
> ...
>Or XFce ...   Re: Re: Re: Evil   
mattwb
Sep 6, 2000, 12:33:27
 
I really hate the RMS. He thinks that he ...   Re: Re: Hmmm.   
Billy Masont
Sep 6, 2000, 12:44:23
 
bravo RMS

----

I got no respect fo ...   bravo RMS   
Ooogster
Sep 6, 2000, 12:45:34
 
I thought RMS was clever enough to not p ...   Was that useful RMS ?   
Frederic
Sep 6, 2000, 13:27:46
 
I have been learning and using Linux sin ...   A voice from the nose-bleed seats of Linux   
Glen Grigsby
Sep 6, 2000, 13:56:14
 
St. Richard,

Thanks for srtriving to  ...   Thanks, St Richard   
Jack Berger
Sep 6, 2000, 14:09:01
 
Does this mean that if I write a program ...   Can't GPL a Windows program?   
William Lindley
Sep 6, 2000, 14:14:25
 
KDE should not be part of a free operati ...   Part of an operating system?   
JB
Sep 6, 2000, 14:44:18
 
Frankly , I think RMS has gone nuts. Tha ...   RMS has lost it   
Rohit Sharma
Sep 6, 2000, 15:12:25
 
I cannot speek of anyone else but I thin ...   I am sick of this!   
Brian Schramm
Sep 6, 2000, 15:28:23
 
The Qt developers are still (at least in ...   Forgive and forget?   
Kaia Vintr
Sep 6, 2000, 15:44:47
 
> Anyway. SuSE/KDE is *MUCH* better engi ...   choice of analogies   
Pat Dale
Sep 6, 2000, 16:22:54
 
Why is QT going GPL a Good Thing? The si ...   Re: KDE's license   
humblePie
Sep 6, 2000, 16:35:13
 
Yes you are right. There was a time wher ...   Re: Part of an operating system?   
Frederic
Sep 6, 2000, 16:41:26
 
> > Also granted, current-release Gnome  ...   Re: Re: Re: Go get 'em KDE!   
humblePie
Sep 6, 2000, 16:41:26
 
Is the badness percieved here that of co ...   What is the real badness?   
Jeremy LaTrasse
Sep 6, 2000, 16:45:21
 
I can't believe the arrogance of Sta ...   arrogance   
Jon
Sep 6, 2000, 16:49:44
 
I always admired RMS. His opinions are o ...   It is so sad ...   
Scuba
Sep 6, 2000, 17:05:13
 
Freedom is not about doing whatever you  ...   Re: Strange guy, this RMS   
pPil
Sep 6, 2000, 17:06:06
 
The people who brought us the Apple GUI  ...   GNOME vs. KDE, maybe moot soon   
R P
Sep 6, 2000, 17:10:51
 
 KDE has another big problem. Not only i ...   KDE will dead soon.   
Paco Paquito Paquete
Sep 6, 2000, 17:12:25
 
Actually, the image that keeps coming to ...   Re: Re: Re: Freedom vs RMS Dictatorship   
Disenchanted
Sep 6, 2000, 18:01:40
 
Hello All,
RMS is just doing one thing, ...   His Mission is Welcomed-Amanda!   
Paul Selormey
Sep 6, 2000, 20:02:27
 
Honestly i dont see why it matters...pro ...   The big 'race'   
Oz
Sep 6, 2000, 20:11:15
 

>  A base system must be fast, stable  ...   Re: KDE will dead soon.   
Stefan Heimers
Sep 6, 2000, 22:01:22
 
While I don't always agree with RMS& ...   Everyone above missed the point   
JJS
Sep 6, 2000, 22:07:16
 
> The main problem is that is has been d ...   Re: KDE will dead soon.   
Count Zero
Sep 6, 2000, 22:33:50
 
I have just one question: did anyone ban ...   Re: Does the argument hold when Motif becomes GPL&   
Alex Somesan
Sep 6, 2000, 23:15:01
 
> Why is QT going GPL a Good Thing? The  ...   Re: Re: KDE's license   
JEDIDIAH
Sep 7, 2000, 00:00:58
 
> Theming won't change many things.  ...   Re: Re: Go get 'em KDE!   
Casey Allen Shobe
Sep 7, 2000, 00:39:02
 
Richard, READ over your words carefuly a ...   Richard Stallman if a big fat idiot....   
TheAlien
Sep 7, 2000, 00:43:29
 
What the hell is Richard complaining abo ...   What's he whining about?   
Michael M
Sep 7, 2000, 02:10:56
 
> I don't think there's anyway K ...   Re: Oh well...   
PL
Sep 7, 2000, 03:44:32
 
>What kind of super-hypocrisy is this!!! ...   Re: Re: Kandalf's useful tip (blowfish)   
PL
Sep 7, 2000, 04:08:21
 
you are not only confuse, but utterly wr ...   Re: Re: Re: Freedom vs RMS Dictatorship   
PL
Sep 7, 2000, 06:12:07
 
If I understand correctly what RMS is tr ...   Can any program be GPL'd?   
Carlos Cortés
Sep 7, 2000, 09:10:01
 
Strangely enough its had the opposite ef ...   Re: Re: Re: Re: Freedom vs RMS Dictatorship   
Nic
Sep 7, 2000, 10:49:51
 
Listen to what Linus has to say:

---- ...   Linus Torwalds opinion...   
Count Zero
Sep 7, 2000, 12:02:52
 
> > > I'd be willing to bet large su ...   Re: Re: Re: It's like Emacs and Vi   
Christoph
Sep 7, 2000, 13:43:57
 
> I wouldn't call KDE "ugly"
> 
>  ...   Re: Re: Re: Re: Go get 'em KDE!   
George Ellenburg
Sep 7, 2000, 14:10:58
 
Ive used GNOME (helixcode) for very litt ...   Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Go get 'em KDE!   
Shawn
Sep 7, 2000, 14:38:10
 
[sorry this aint been proof read, aint g ...   The hypothetical case for MS violating the GPL(tha   
DevilsAdvocate
Sep 7, 2000, 16:34:25
 
The GPL has been used very successfully  ...   Forgiveness = Indemnity   
Kaia Vintr
Sep 7, 2000, 18:58:30
 
1.  Linux is not for the inexperience us ...   Re: choice of analogies   
blowfish
Sep 7, 2000, 19:05:51
 
 I am very sorry that the true will make ...   Re: Re: Re: Kandalf's useful tip (blowfish)   
blowfish
Sep 7, 2000, 19:33:24
 
blowfish,

Why do you hate RMS so much ...   Re: Re: Re: Freedom vs RMS Dictatorship   
A programmer likes GPL
Sep 7, 2000, 19:37:49
 
RMS keep preaching his wacko ideas so he ...   Re: Re: Re: Re: Freedom vs RMS Dictatorship   
blowfish
Sep 7, 2000, 19:54:49
 
>The "Long March" happened during the la ...   Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Freedom vs RMS Dictatorship   
blowfish
Sep 7, 2000, 20:29:54
 
Man, talk about an inflated ego, but tha ...   RMS=   
Ed Santiago
Sep 7, 2000, 22:22:55
 
>Need more evidence?  Let's look aga ...   Re: RMS and FSF   
Simon Conrad-Armes
Sep 7, 2000, 22:34:14
 
I mean Jesus, don't people have anyt ...   So now that Qt is GPL who cares?   
Perry Black
Sep 8, 2000, 11:19:06
 
"Code of Ethics" =~ Law
 
example 

 ...   Re: Are we lawyers or programmers?   
Jodi B.
Sep 8, 2000, 21:02:43
 
Hi Dave,

Licensing goes deeper than m ...   Re: Re: Hmmm.   
Jodi B.
Sep 8, 2000, 21:28:19
 
and then it gets a little odd:

Mandra ...   Re: Re: Hmmm.   
pygat42
Sep 10, 2000, 03:37:06
 
I don't think Qt is a free software  ...   KDE and GNOME???   
David Lang
Sep 21, 2000, 05:46:44
 
I have read through many of the response ...   Why all the animostity?   
Terry Brown
Oct 3, 2000, 16:33:47
 
see
 http://www.plig.org/xwinman/vote.ht ...   see the comparison table   
Yuri Leikind
Oct 16, 2000, 14:59:22
 
Blab blab blab... It never ends, forget  ...   re: Stallman on Qt, the GPL,   
Al Wasp
Jan 19, 2002, 20:10:31
 
> RMS is absolutely right to not accept  ...   Re: Eternal vigilance of GPL violations   
Anonymous
Apr 25, 2004, 05:41:43
 
What all you said is not correct.  What  ...   Communism   
JYOTHIS
Jul 28, 2004, 09:13:44
 
I like them both for different reasons,  ...   KDE vs GNOME   
Saffransnisse
Mar 22, 2005, 21:32:54
 
Both Gnome and KDE looks nice and dandy, ...   I sold my soul to the window manager   
Daniel
Mar 8, 2006, 20:11:09
 
Stallman obviously  loves and admires St ...   Stallman - The Prince of Darkness   
YoYo MaMa
Feb 5, 2008, 06:58:43
 
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