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:GNOME: Non-free software and GNOME (RMS requests GNOME Summary Cease Mention of Non-Free Software)
GNOME: Non-free software and GNOME (RMS requests GNOME Summary Cease Mention of Non-Free Software)
Oct 19, 2001, 15 :09 UTC (102 Talkback[s]) (15609 reads)

From: Christian Schaller <uraeus linuxrising org>
To: foundation-list gnome org
Cc: gnome-summary gnome org
Subject: Non-free software and GNOME
Date: 19 Oct 2001 13:05:34 +0200

Hi,
As most of you probably know myself and Steve George are writing the
GNOME summaries. Personally I also post or approve a lot of the stories
comming up on Gnotices. 

Some weeks ago we got a mail from Richard Stallman asking that we stop
all mentions of non-free software in the GNOME summaries. The background
for the request was that we had mentioned the beta of Star Office some
time back.

I argued that the purpose of the GNOME summaries was to promote GNOME
and while our focus of course is free software I felt that it was
natural to mention the availability of non-free software where the
existence of such software where a clear advantage for GNOME.

RMS replied telling us that he disagreed with my argument and saying the
we are legitimatizing the use of non-free software by mentioning it. 
I left it at that, but today RMS remailed us today asking us to confirm
that we will not mention non-free software anymore.

So I decided to ask the GNOME foundation on policy advice on this issue.
So what is to be the GNOME policy on this question? Is all mentions of
non-free software something we should avoid at all costs or should we
keep with the current unwriten policy of mentioning it when we feel that
mentioning will benefit the use of free software (GNOME) overall?

Personally I feel that I and Steve have kept a nice balance using common
sense up to this point, but if we are out of sync with the rest of the
community please let us know.

Christian

Index Mode   |   Flat Mode   |   Thread Mode   |   Thread Flat  
  Talkback(s) Name  and Date
The GNOME summaries have been excellent  ...   Christian, you've done nothing wrong...   
Jamin Philip Gray
Oct 19, 2001, 15:19:48
 
RMS should find a hobby. Doesn&#39;t he  ...   RMS   
Chris Spencer
Oct 19, 2001, 15:20:43
 
Debian clearly identified non-Free softw ...   Just do what Debian does   
ac
Oct 19, 2001, 15:21:58
 
I am not part of the GNOME foundation.   ...   RMS suggestion   
james lamm
Oct 19, 2001, 15:25:45
 

You can&#39;t replace one form of tyra ...   Geez...   
ac
Oct 19, 2001, 15:29:40
 
By all means, KEEP mentioning software l ...   Um, guys...   
jc
Oct 19, 2001, 15:33:34
 

Non-free software exists, and there is ...   RMS Thought police?   
Joey
Oct 19, 2001, 15:36:58
 
Evangalism is all well and good, but fre ...   Stick with it   
John Cavan
Oct 19, 2001, 15:41:27
 
Is RMS asking you that you give out your ...   Freedom.....?   
Felipe
Oct 19, 2001, 15:45:19
 
Yes, you are out of sync.  Please don&#3 ...   Out of sync   
P.D.S
Oct 19, 2001, 15:46:34
 
does it say that one can&#39;t speak abo ...   Where in the GPL . . .   
Jonathan
Oct 19, 2001, 15:46:52
 
The GNOME summaries have been excellent  ...   RE: Christian, you've done nothing wrong...   
wilbert
Oct 19, 2001, 15:51:49
 
I agree with Jamin - you&#39;ve done not ...   Ignore him   
Randell Jesup
Oct 19, 2001, 15:52:23
 
Don&#39;t mess about, just say no.

I  ...   No.   
Wiggle
Oct 19, 2001, 15:52:31
 
Ok, I think RMS is right when he says we ...   no wrong, no right   
neugens
Oct 19, 2001, 15:54:39
 
> Evangalism is all well and good, but f ...   Re: Stick with it   
Mike Grello
Oct 19, 2001, 15:56:37
 
It&#39;s interesting to note that OpenOf ...   OpenOffice is LGPL'd   
Jeff Gustafson
Oct 19, 2001, 16:03:15
 
I feel that non-free software should not ...   Agreement With RMS   
Joe Humrickhouse
Oct 19, 2001, 16:03:49
 
With respect to Star Office, perhaps he  ...   He May Have a Point   
Henry Story
Oct 19, 2001, 16:08:21
 
I am not a member of the GNOME fiundatio ...   current policy is coprrect   
Alan Johnson
Oct 19, 2001, 16:08:22
 
I felt that it was
natural to mention t ...   Schaller doing a disservice to GNU   
Johan Ebert
Oct 19, 2001, 16:10:38
 
I&#39;m amazed that you even need to ask ...   You're kidding? Aren't you?   
Daniel Boulet
Oct 19, 2001, 16:14:08
 
RMS talks about free speech but his extr ...   Does RMS support free speech?   
mg
Oct 19, 2001, 16:18:08
 
My thoughts exactly.  When I saw this, I ...   Re: Freedom.....?   
Benjamin Scott
Oct 19, 2001, 16:18:41
 
It benefits no one to mention propriteta ...   non-free   
Stephen Crowley
Oct 19, 2001, 16:19:47
 
I use GNOME, and RMS does not represent  ...   It's only RMS.   
dcransto
Oct 19, 2001, 16:24:22
 
It is ludicrous of RMS to suggest that t ...   Legitimacy   
Daniel
Oct 19, 2001, 16:28:50
 
I certainly think that actively prohibit ...   Gnotices   
Tony OBryan
Oct 19, 2001, 16:30:39
 
... if not Free? What is RMS afraid of? ...   Isn't StarOffice free?   
ac
Oct 19, 2001, 16:30:48
 
I would suggest that we simply cease all ...   My suggestion...   
Art Cancro
Oct 19, 2001, 16:32:39
 
It sounds like you&#39;ve been doing a g ...   A note from a KDE user.   
Dean Pannell (a.k.a. dinotrac)
Oct 19, 2001, 16:32:52
 
You are a link for the gnome users to so ...   non-free software   
denis miller
Oct 19, 2001, 16:34:27
 
I&#39;d say continue mentioning products ...   Ours to choose   
James E. LaBarre
Oct 19, 2001, 16:35:11
 
Why not simply mention the GPLed Openoff ...   There is an obvious way around this   
Alan W. Irwin
Oct 19, 2001, 16:35:26
 
> Yes, you are out of sync.  Please don& ...   Re: Out of sync   
Eric
Oct 19, 2001, 16:38:13
 
 Sun gave us all of StarOffice that can  ...   Re: no wrong, no right   
Johan Ebert
Oct 19, 2001, 16:40:00
 
Go to google and search on "microsoft si ...   "Microsoft" at www.fsf.org   
Pat Notz
Oct 19, 2001, 16:45:20
 
 If the purpose of GNOME were to be Free ...   Re: Agreement With RMS   
Mark Allan
Oct 19, 2001, 16:49:30
 
StarOffice is OpenOffice picked by sun u ...   Re: OpenOffice is LGPL'd   
Rui Miguel Seabra
Oct 19, 2001, 16:50:51
 
> Perhaps the greatest irony is that the ...   Re: Schaller doing a disservice to GNU   
Albert Knox
Oct 19, 2001, 16:51:08
 
just curious. ...   if you but a RedHat CD is that non-free?   
yuri vil
Oct 19, 2001, 16:51:09
 
>RMS replied telling us that he disagree ...   RMS freedom   
Arno Paehler
Oct 19, 2001, 16:55:14
 
I have been writing systems for many man ...   OpenSource does not negate business   
Igbar Foosenhopper
Oct 19, 2001, 16:58:00
 
We are all supposed to choose between Fr ...   We must choose   
Janne
Oct 19, 2001, 16:59:59
 
> As far as I&#39;m concerned, GNOME is  ...   Re: Schaller doing a disservice to GNU   
Anil Wang
Oct 19, 2001, 17:02:43
 
> Maybe RMS should read the constitution ...   Re: RMS freedom   
Dean Pannell (a.k.a. dinotrac)
Oct 19, 2001, 17:05:23
 
Hi all,

The Gnome foundation isn&#39; ...   Non Free issues, you're not the only one he as   
Hans Wolters
Oct 19, 2001, 17:17:16
 
"neugens" wrote:

But software like St ...   Some remedial logic   
Rick Moen
Oct 19, 2001, 17:22:55
 
It is ludicrous of RMS to suggest that t ...   Re: Legitimacy   
Rick Moen
Oct 19, 2001, 17:27:13
 
RMS has not suggested that anyone should ...   Freedom of speech not an issue here   
Fra. 219
Oct 19, 2001, 17:30:57
 
Isn&#39;t RMS the guy who insists all no ...   zealotry is zealotry   
R Wood
Oct 19, 2001, 17:36:01
 
> does it say that one can&#39;t speak a ...   Re: Where in the GPL . . .   
PDL
Oct 19, 2001, 17:48:33
 
>Those who have raised "freedom of speec ...   Re: Freedom of speech not an issue here   
Dean Pannell (a.k.a. dinotrac)
Oct 19, 2001, 17:51:25
 
Excuse my ignorance about the Open Sourc ...   Re: Agreement With RMS   
MM Diaz
Oct 19, 2001, 18:13:56
 
However, RMS likes to call GPL&#39;d sof ...   Re: Re: Freedom of speech not an issue here   
Fra. 219
Oct 19, 2001, 18:36:19
 

It&#39;s insane to compare RMS with th ...   Re: zealotry is zealotry   
Fred Mobach
Oct 19, 2001, 18:40:31
 
> RMS talks about free speech but his ex ...   Re: Does RMS support free speech?   
Daniel
Oct 19, 2001, 18:49:47
 
In the interest and benefit of Free Soft ...   I agree   
/curtis
Oct 19, 2001, 18:52:47
 
Can somebody confirm that we should not  ...   Not using VIM too?   
VimLover
Oct 19, 2001, 19:06:23
 
Hi

I think RMS is saying "if you are  ...   either your are with os or ...   
jens
Oct 19, 2001, 19:06:35
 
Everybody should have the right to decid ...   users should decide what to use   
Tamas
Oct 19, 2001, 19:16:54
 
I have no problem with RMS expressing hi ...   Re: Re: Does RMS support free speech?   
mg
Oct 19, 2001, 19:30:45
 
Richard Stallman has done the world a gr ...   GNU Think   
Rich Paul
Oct 19, 2001, 19:33:55
 
RMS needs a clue.  Non-free soft is not  ...   Non-Free software IS "legitimate"   
Doug Reed
Oct 19, 2001, 19:57:36
 
My experience with RMS is that he is ver ...   Obsession and Fanaticism   
Joe Kaplenk
Oct 19, 2001, 20:32:09
 
Just make sure you prominently distingui ...   Simple compromise   
flacco
Oct 19, 2001, 20:36:15
 
> Is RMS asking you that you give out yo ...   Re: Freedom.....?   
Rufus Polson
Oct 19, 2001, 20:40:07
 
RMS needs a clue.  Non-free soft is not  ...   Re: Non-Free software IS   
Fra. 219
Oct 19, 2001, 20:56:47
 
I suspect I am like most people who use  ...   RMS   
David
Oct 19, 2001, 21:09:56
 
> I feel that non-free software should n ...   I'll second that (Re: Agreement With RMS)   
Matt
Oct 19, 2001, 21:26:28
 
OpenOffice is released under the GPL as  ...   Re: Re: OpenOffice is LGPL'd   
Miguel de Icaza
Oct 19, 2001, 21:29:13
 
> RMS needs a clue.  Non-free soft is no ...   Re: Non-Free software IS   
Mark
Oct 19, 2001, 21:30:38
 
I don&#39;t like RMS but I think a lot o ...   In defense   
Thomas Worthington
Oct 19, 2001, 21:48:05
 
>
> Just be glad his zealotism is for s ...   Re: Ignore him   
Gregório Jordão
Oct 19, 2001, 21:56:46
 
From my view, what your doing is nothing ...   I think RMS may be wrong on this one...   
Sgt_Jake
Oct 19, 2001, 22:33:35
 
I agree with the previous posters that t ...   The cream will rise to the top.   
Pete
Oct 19, 2001, 22:35:41
 
For those of us who have had the privile ...   What James Madison would say...   
Josh Hansen
Oct 19, 2001, 23:08:57
 
It&#39;s interesting how whenever RMS sa ...   RMS the lightning rod   
Rod Wright
Oct 19, 2001, 23:16:51
 
Josh Hansen wrote:

For those of us wh ...   The outpatients are out in force   
Rick Moen
Oct 19, 2001, 23:51:41
 
"Pete" wrote:

I agree with the previo ...   Re: The cream will rise to the top.   
Rick Moen
Oct 19, 2001, 23:55:35
 
and they put a warning at the end saying ...   Re: RMS   
Cyd
Oct 19, 2001, 23:55:54
 
I feel that non-free software should not ...   Re: Agreement With RMS   
Strangelove
Oct 19, 2001, 23:57:21
 
Yes, keep mentioning pertinent non-free  ...   keep doing what you're doing   
James Jones
Oct 20, 2001, 00:14:08
 
> It continually amazes me that every ti ...   Re: Re: Freedom.....?   
Jeff
Oct 20, 2001, 00:21:04
 
"VIMlover" wrote:

Can somebody confir ...   Re: Not using VIM too?   
Rick Moen
Oct 20, 2001, 00:24:37
 
I feel that it is more important to furt ...   Do we want to further non free software?   
Dave
Oct 20, 2001, 02:27:52
 
Suppose that the people at GNOME would f ...   I wonder   
Theodore Kilgore
Oct 20, 2001, 04:01:14
 
Gnome is the GNU Network Object Model En ...   GNOME is a GNU project.   
Forge
Oct 20, 2001, 04:40:09
 
Speak of non free but before that make G ...   Re: Re: Where in the GPL . . .   
Anon
Oct 20, 2001, 06:00:50
 
StarOffice is OpenOffice picked by sun u ...   Re: Re: OpenOffice is LGPL'd   
ashnazg
Oct 20, 2001, 10:45:37
 
Do people really believe that RMS wants  ...   choices to make   
David
Oct 20, 2001, 14:12:40
 
I admit, I&#39;m an avid KDE user, and I ...   It was the same with KDE   
AC
Oct 20, 2001, 16:52:45
 
Thanks for your hard work on the GNOME p ...   Open Office/Star Office = Mozilla/Netscape   
Carlos
Oct 20, 2001, 19:50:28
 
There is a danger when you mention comme ...   Ethics and pragmatism   
JFM
Oct 20, 2001, 20:37:27
 
If we want KDE and GNOME to catch on to  ...   GNOME and KDE needs commercial software   
Dan Wester
Oct 21, 2001, 07:44:06
 
>  Sun gave us all of StarOffice that ca ...   Re: Re: no wrong, no right   
Mike
Oct 21, 2001, 16:54:46
 
Christian,
 
You ask for an opinion on ...   Follow your goals, you do the work.   
twivel
Oct 21, 2001, 22:38:52
 
The "Hooks" I could think of are M$ spec ...   Re: Re: Re: no wrong, no right   
Nathan Schultz
Oct 23, 2001, 04:14:50
 
In your heart you know RMS is right. 

 ...   Re: RMS and Non-Free Software   
Gordon Talge
Oct 30, 2001, 03:47:17
 
> just curious.

It seems that you may ...   Re: if you but a RedHat CD is that non-free?   
Gordon Talge
Oct 30, 2001, 04:01:22
 
I believe this is exactly the point ORei ...   Re: Freedom.....?   
Derek Long
Nov 9, 2001, 08:24:22
 
The question is this: will they find abo ...   People will always find out about non-free softwar   
A. Travers
Jan 3, 2002, 14:19:33
 
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