Linus Torvalds: What I'm saying is: "No more S***!"
May 15, 2001, 13:57 (73 Talkback[s])
(Other stories by Linus Torvalds)
Re-Imagining Linux Platforms to Meet the Needs of Cloud Service Providers
By way of context, the issue this mail centers around is Linus'
announcement of a moratorium on major device numbers. A mail from
Peter Anvin explained that Linus hopes a "new and better method for
device space handling will emerge as a result" of the short term
chaos this may induce. Whether you care to delve into the details
of kernel development or not, however, the comment that bears
consideration is: "When Microsoft defines darkness to be standard,
we laugh at them. When we do it, Alan Cox stands up for it and
claims that it's the best thing since sliced bread. Double
Subject: Re: LANANA: Getting out of hand?
From: Linus Torvalds <email@example.com>
To: Alan Cox <firstname.lastname@example.org>
On Mon, 14 May 2001, Alan Cox wrote:
> Except that Linus wont hand out major numbers, which means I
> even boot simply off such a device. I bet the vendors in
> dont think the sun shines out of linus backside any
Actually, it does. It's just that some people have gotten so
blinded by my a** that they can no longer see it any more ;)
The problem I have is that there are lots of _good_ solutions,
but they all imply a bit more work than the bad ones.
What does that result in? Everybody continues to use the simple
old setup, which required no thought at all, but that is a pain to
For example, the only thing you need in order to boot is to have
a nice clean "disk" major number. That's it. Nothing fancy, nothing
Look at what we have now:
- ramdisk: major 1. Fair enough - ramdisk is special, in that it
doesn't have any "real hardware". No problem.
- SCSI disks:
major 8, 65-71,
- Compaq smart2:
- Compaq CISS:
major 3, 22, 33-34, 56-57, 88-91
and then the small random ones.
NONE of these major numbers have _any_ redeeming qualities
except for the ramdisk. They should all be _one_ major number,
namely "disk". There are absolutely NO advantages to having
separate devices for soem strange compaq controllers and IDE disks.
There is _no_ point in having some SCSI disks show up at major 8,
while others (who just happen to be attached to a scsi bus that is
not driven by the generic SCSI layer) show up at major 104 or
And it will never ever get fixed, unless somebody says "No
more!". Which I'm trying my best to say, except some people are so
comfortable rolling around in the shit that they have re-defined
shit to be the new standard.
When Microsoft defines darkness to be standard, we laugh at
them. When we do it, Alan Cox stands up for it and claims that it's
the best thing since sliced bread. Double standards, anybody?
What I'm saying is: "No more SHIT!". I'm more than happy to give
out a new standard number for _disks_. I'm NOT AT ALL willing to
say "Ok, Peter, go ahead and give the next braindamaged
Compaq/RedHat/Xxxx engineer another random number so that we can
dig ourselves deeper and deeper into this shithole that Alan and
others like so much".
How hard is it to generate a new "disk driver framework", and
let people register themselves, kind of like the "misc" drivers do.
Except we'd only allow DISKS. You could add something like
and then the disk driver framework will select a range of minor
numbers for the disks, and forward all requests that come to those
minor numbers to "my_queue". No major numbers. No fixed minors. And
the user sees _one_ disk major, and doesn't care _what_ the hell is
But no. When I tell people "enough is enough", people want to
continue with the unbearably stupid and ugly thing we've always
had, without realizing that the _real_ problem is not that we have
too few major numbers, but the real problem is that people have
mis-used the ones we _do_ have, and the fact that we have too few
_minor_ numbers (which is easily fixable, and where 20 bits is