Linux Today: Linux News On Internet Time.
Search Linux Today
search.internet.com
Linux News Sections:  Blog -  Developer -  High Performance -  Infrastructure -  IT Management -  Security -  Storage -
Linux Today Navigation
LT Home
Preferences
Contribute
Link to Us
Search
Linux Jobs

Become a Marketplace Partner

internet.commerce
Be a Commerce Partner














The Linux Channel at internet.com
Linux Today
Enterprise Linux Today
Apache Today
JustLinux.com
Linux Planet
PHPBuilder
All Linux Devices
Technology Jobs

JustTechJobs.com

LinuxToday Newsletters
Subscribe News
Subscribe PR
Subscribe Security

internet.com
IT
Developer
Internet News
Small Business
Personal Technology

Search internet.com
Advertise
Corporate Info
Newsletters
Tech Jobs
E-mail Offers

 







Current Newswire:

LinuxCertified Announces its next Linux System and Network Administration BootCamp

The Problem With The Linux Community

Vim 101: A Beginner's Guide to Vim

Open Source Science: A Revolution From Within

openSUSE 11.2-- Incremental Updates, Plenty of Polish

Microsoft, other rivals slam Google Chrome OS

Intel Linux Graphics Shine With Fedora 12

Editor's Note: Do It Yourself "Cloud"

Google Chrome OS: First looks, first impressions

Kernel Log: Coming in 2.6.32 (Part 3) - Storage




Systems Implementation Engineer II – Disk-Based Back-Up/Replication/RedHat Linux (PA)
Next Step Systems
US-PA-Philadelphia

Justtechjobs.com Post A Job | Post A Resume
:Linux and Windows Installation Compared
Linux and Windows Installation Compared
Aug 16, 1999, 04 :42 UTC (81 Talkback[s]) (24421 reads)

(Other stories by Bill Stilwell)

By Bill Stilwell

[ The opinions expressed by authors on Linux Today are their own. They speak only for themselves and not for Linux Today. ]

We've all heard the stories about how difficult Linux is to install. Over and over and over again. I recently had the chance to install both Linux and Windows98 on the same machine and I think a side-by-side comparison might be interesting.

First, the machine in question:

  • ASUS P2B-F Motherboard
  • 128MB PC-100 SDRAM
  • Celeron 366 PPGA w/Asus slot370 to slot1 converter card
  • Asus V3400 (Yes, I like Asus products)
  • Western Digital 13GB Hard Drive.
  • Creative Labs Soundblaster Live! Value Edition
  • DLink PCI Ethernet Card
  • Generic 28.8 ISA Modem
  • Panasonic ATAPI DVD-ROM Drive
Second, the brain in question:

I've installed Debian before using their net installation; I had no prior experience installing Windows 98 (or 95 for that matter). I have never installed any operating system on a bare machine before. I'd peg my Linux and Windows expertise level at about the same place: Smart User.

Operating Systems Installed:

  • Debian GNU/Linux 2.1 4 CD Set ($20 from www.chguy.net; price includes taxes, shipping, and a $3 donation to FSF). 2 CDs are binaries, 2 CDs complete source code;
  • Windows 98 Second Edition Upgrade Version ($136 through Megadepot.com, price does not include taxes/shipping). Surprisingly, no source code is included.
Getting The Installation Started:

Linux:

  • Insert 1st CD of Debian binary set. Turn computer on. Make sure BIOS is set to boot from CDROM. Installation process starts.
Win98:
  • Insert win98 CD, turn computer on, ensure BIOS is set to boot from CDROM. This fails.
  • Read documentation, realize that system must be booted via some other method and the file setup.exe run manually. Documentation helpfully provides a pointer to a section called "Creating a Windows 98 Startup Disk" which, unfortunately, only provides instructions on how to create a startup disk from within Windows 98.
  • Go to old computer running win3.1, format a dos bootup disk, download appropriate CD-ROM drivers, create autoexec.bat and config.sys files, reboot with bootup disk, run setup.exe on the CD-ROM Drive.
  • Installation process starts, then aborts, informing me there is not enough room on drive c:. Seeing as drive c: isn't really partitioned yet, I get confused. Remember that Western Digital drive documentation referred to ezdrive software, which is necessary to prepare drive for OS installation. Return to old computer, download and run ezdrive, which formats another floppy, which is to be used to format and partition my drives.
  • Return to new computer, and reboot with ezdrive floppy. Ezdrive wants to see my system disk for the OS I wish to install. As the only system disk I have handy is the DOS startup disk, I feed that into the floppy drive. Ezdrive informs me I'll only be able to use 8GB of my 13GB drive, and I'll have to partition the 8GB into 4 separate 2GB partitions. I let it do this, it copies over system files and I reboot.
  • The CD-ROM drive now fails to initialize as there are not enough drive letters. Go back to the old computer, copy fdisk.exe to a floppy, return to the new computer, run fdisk, delete 2 of the 4 2GB partitions, reboot.
  • Run setup.exe from the CD-ROM drive. Installation has begun.
Running The Installation:

Linux:

  • A simple character based application gathers information about my system, asks a few simple questions (color or monochrome, keyboard type, etc.), then asks me to partition the disk. I create one large partition and one swap partition.
  • All is now ready to install the kernel and necessary modules, and I'm presented with a myriad of choices of media and installation options. I, obviously, choose CD-ROM, tell the program where the CD-ROM is (a strange step considering the program was RUN from the CD-ROM, but there you go) and things whir away.
  • As I don't have to add any special modules (which I would need if I were installing via a network connection), I can safely skip ahead to Installing the Base System, which proceeds successfully. I'm now asked if i want to make Linux bootable directly form the hard disk, which I do. Now, a boot floppy is made in case something goes wrong.[*] [*] Something always goes wrong. Always make boot floppies.
  • Time to reboot. I remove the newly made boot floppy and the installation CD-ROM and restart. Linux start successfully and I'm prompted for a root password, then to create a normal user. Despite my firmly held belief I'm not really _normal_, I create a user account for myself. I'm prompted to enable shadow passwords (yes) and to remove PCMCIA (yes).
  • Now, it's time to Select and Install Profiles. Debian provides thousands of binary packages to install, and choosing which ones you need would take hours and likely be a bewildering task for the newcomer, so they've provided several different Install Profiles that install sets of packages based on the use the machine will see. They also provide task sets such as "HTML Authoring" if you want finer-grained control over what is installed. I choose the "Desktop Machine" profile, which promises to eat up 500MB of space while providing me with everything, including the kitchen sink (that is to say, emacs).
  • Debian trundles away as my disk space is steadily eaten up. Eventually it finishes installing programs, and begins configuring them. This step, which as far as I know is a peculiarity of the Debian Linux system, requires you to acquiesce to interminable y/n questions that you still feel the need to pay close enough attention to that you don't end up posting to alt.2600 saying "YOU'LL NEVER HACK MY 3L3373 COMPUTER D00DZ!!!!!!!!!" complete with credit card information and home phone number.
  • Eventually, installation and configuration is complete and I'm dumped down to the login prompt, and I can get on with post-installation tasks like configuring X-Windows and setting up a net connection.
Win98:
  • First, I have to prove I'm eligible for the upgrade version of the software, so I have to dig up my WFWG 3.11 disks and feed a few of them into the computer.
  • I'm asked where I want to install Windows, and I choose the default of c:\windows. [*] [*] Always choose the default in Windows, unless you really want your operating system to be confused.[**] [**] You don't.
  • I'm now given 4 choices of what to install: typical, compact, laptop, and custom. I choose custom, and select nearly everything, including a frighteningly large selection of `Desktop Themes'.
  • Windows trundles away, detecting hardware and installing the OS. It reboots a couple times. The progress meter and "Time Remaining" counter prove handy distraction from the descriptions of OS features that are popped up selling me on a product I've already purchased.
  • After a final reboot, Windows 98 begins in earnest. I'm prompted for a password, which is optional. Time for post-installation tasks like installing the provided drivers for my spiffy new hardware and setting up a net connection.
Post-Installation

Linux:

  • First things first, get the net connection going. That's easy, of course, just run ppp-config. I run ppp-config, save the configuration file, run pon. (I have, of course, given my user account the correct permissions to do so; in Debian this means adding myself to the `dip' group. ILA[*].) The modem clicks, but doesn't dial out. Error messages in the logs are unhelpful.
  • [Several hours of unproductive cursing, reseating of modem card and spelunking in the BIOS ellided.]
  • FINALLY, reading the Serial-HOWTO (helpfully installed with Debian) twigs something and I realize the on-board serial port must be disabled so the modem card serial port can do its thing. One more reboot, a tentative pon and the modem dials successfully and makes a connection. I am connected! [*] I Love Acronyms
  • I can now download the updated version of XFree86 I need so X can run at a decent resolution and color depth with my video card. wget is a great program, by the way. Once that is safely installed, I run XF86Setup and I now have a GUI running! I log in and start playing with GIMP, which was tortuous to run on my old 486.
  • I realize I should probably set up email, so I quickly setup fetchmail and have it run. Problem: fetchmail fetches and hands it off the the local mail system, but it doesn't deliver. I recall seeing some discussion of this problem on the Debian-user list, so I fire up lynx and check the archives for "exim fetchmail" and discover I need to have localhost inserted in the appropriate part of exim.conf. Once inserted, mail starts being delivered.
I now consider the installation complete; the rest is fiddling to make things work the way I like them.

Windows 98:

  • I have multiple vendor supplied CD-ROMs to install to get various bits of the system in working order. Video card installation goes smoothly, requiring a single reboot. (Make snide comment to my wife about how I didn't have to do this w/Linux.) Sound card installation goes smoothly once I realize documentation is inaccurate - it tells you to insert the CD-ROM and then open up My Computer and click on the cd-rom drive and run the setup program, which is already running at this point because there is an autorun.inf file on the CD-ROM. Once I stop reading the documentation and just click on OK when prompted to everything goes smoothly, with only one reboot required. (Make snide comment etc.)
  • Time to create a net connection. Double click on Internet Explorer and it prompts me through the steps for a net connection. I'm online quickly, downloading the updated drivers for the video card, requiring another reboot (Make snide comment etc.)
  • Time to start downloading mail. I double click on Outlook Express, and am prompted through creating an account. As my ISP mail server supports IMAP, I select this protocol and create the account. Outlook Express then wants to refresh my folder listing and asks permission to get this from my server. I acquiesce and it starts downloading EVERY SINGLE FOLDER on the mail server. I cancel this after a few minutes and check the properties for the account. Under advanced setting I specify INBOX as the folder it should check for my mail. It is now able to download my mail.
I now consider installation to be complete.

SUMMARY

Installation of both Linux and Windows 98 had their good, bad, and ugly points. Getting the installation started for Windows 98 was ridiculous, while some of the finer points of the Debian GNU/Linux install were flawed - having to approve configuration questions for hundreds of programs during installation is, in my opinion, not a good way to do things. I certainly wouldn't expect a non-savvy person to be able to install either successfully.

On the one hand, they probably wouldn't have been able to get the Windows 98 installation STARTED, while the Debian installation required several steps that required a great deal of background knowledge (e.g., knowing that the server would have to be upgraded to support the video card being used and knowing where to get the appropriate files, knowing where to look for mail delivery solution, etc.) Both systems required significant knowledge about the tasks being accomplished.

Bill Stilwell is a 27 year old living in Vancouver, British Columbia. He works for a public library as an administrative assistant and spends way too much time fiddling with his computer.

Index Mode   |   Flat Mode   |   Thread Mode   |   Thread Flat  
  Talkback(s) Name  and Date
Debian is not the easiest to install dis ...   Debian?   
Prasanth Kumar
Aug 16, 1999, 05:01:01
 
Bill,
I am a Linux user and also a tech  ...   Your Installation Process is flawed   
Jim Jeup
Aug 16, 1999, 05:49:34
 
Yes, I'm aware of the full windows 9 ...   Re: Your Installation Process is flawed   
Bill Stilwell
Aug 16, 1999, 06:10:55
 
You forgot to say how much time you spen ...   Red Hat Linux   
Stefano
Aug 16, 1999, 07:06:35
 
???  So a 'smart windows user' w ...   Re: Your Installation Process is flawed   
rob
Aug 16, 1999, 07:28:51
 
Furthermore, it include X11, Gnome, KDE, ...   RedHat 6.0 is easier to install.   
Bernard Wei
Aug 16, 1999, 07:30:18
 
I would generally not recommend debian t ...   This is why debian is generally used by more techn   
Lucas
Aug 16, 1999, 08:10:20
 
"The full version of Win98 comes with al ...   Re: Your Installation Process is flawed   
Ray
Aug 16, 1999, 08:15:30
 
I recently had the same experience insta ...   Debian much easier than Win98   
Leslie C. Miller
Aug 16, 1999, 08:30:09
 
The mention of your modem problems on th ...   Modem problems   
Alain Knaff
Aug 16, 1999, 09:00:01
 
Actually, I tryed Slackware (some years  ...   SuSE is very easy to install.   
Hurricane
Aug 16, 1999, 09:09:22
 
Just some reminder;
	1. MSWindows has ha ...   Technically Inclined   
Warshack
Aug 16, 1999, 10:17:13
 
I've installed NT 4.0 about 300 time ...   Experienced Window user/New to Linux   
David
Aug 16, 1999, 10:34:21
 
Well, we could do two things, 

- trying ...   Re: Debian much easier than Win98   
Lo Paan
Aug 16, 1999, 10:35:57
 
im glad to see someone doing a Linux art ...   Debian = good   
Aaron Theodore
Aug 16, 1999, 10:37:57
 
There's a few things that annoy me a ...   Microsoft don't care about their customers.   
Dave
Aug 16, 1999, 10:43:24
 
Firstly...thanx for the comparison....i  ...   Like Redhat though....   
S.Yazam
Aug 16, 1999, 10:47:17
 
Do not misunderstand me - I am on the Li ...   Soundcard   
Gaboro
Aug 16, 1999, 11:24:09
 
Jim,

Why pay for another license for th ...   Re: Re: Your Installation Process is flawed   
Ivan Samuelson
Aug 16, 1999, 11:55:24
 
Well, yesterday I re-intalled RH 6 cause ...   RH 6   
Pepo
Aug 16, 1999, 12:14:38
 
Well i´m a beginer in linux, okey linux  ...   I agree about the installation   
Thomas
Aug 16, 1999, 12:20:19
 
Should have used OpenLinux 2.2!!!!!!

Ji ...   OpenLinux 2.2   
Jim O'Quinn
Aug 16, 1999, 12:34:15
 
I actually had the same privledge last w ...   SuSE vs. Win 98   
Andyman
Aug 16, 1999, 12:35:41
 
My experience with win98 was much worse. ...   you had it easy with win98!   
Kenneth Scharf
Aug 16, 1999, 12:40:33
 
I just installed Caldera's OpenLinux ...   OpenLinux   
Kevin
Aug 16, 1999, 12:47:57
 
First of all, I consider myself a techni ...   Win95 much easier than Debian   
Rainy
Aug 16, 1999, 13:54:17
 
As far as some of you are interested, I  ...   Reboots ?   
Fred Mobach
Aug 16, 1999, 14:09:04
 
He used Debian, so damn what if you thin ...   Doods   
CrackHead
Aug 16, 1999, 14:14:07
 
"So a smart windows user would pay more  ...   Re: Re: Re: Your Installation Process is flawed   
Daniel McLaury
Aug 16, 1999, 14:21:06
 
``Then buy hardware that runs un ...   Re: Driver Support   
Richard Turner
Aug 16, 1999, 14:25:14
 
> The CD-ROM drive now fails to initiali ...   drive letters   
TedC
Aug 16, 1999, 14:43:25
 
What makes this an "entitlement"?  You c ...   Re: Re: Your Installation Process is flawed   
m
Aug 16, 1999, 15:23:21
 
Well, let me see.  I got Windows 98 with ...   Installation comparisons   
David Paschall-Zimbel
Aug 16, 1999, 15:25:24
 
I'll admit to installing OpenLinux 2 ...   But I love my Debian...   
dinotrac
Aug 16, 1999, 15:35:07
 
> Debian do not really want to refine th ...   Re: This is why debian is generally used by more t   
Badben
Aug 16, 1999, 16:02:36
 
It's my impression that Linux is tou ...   Isn't this suppose to be NT/Linux comparison&#   
jim
Aug 16, 1999, 16:03:39
 
The Windows upgrade disks are a *real* p ...   Re: Your Installation Process is flawed   
Bear Giles
Aug 16, 1999, 17:15:17
 
Ivan,
I was not attempting to start a ph ...   Re: Re: Re: Your Installation Process is flawed   
Jim Jeup
Aug 17, 1999, 01:34:45
 
>The big selling point for Linux is "no  ...   Re: Installation comparisons   
Steve Bergman
Aug 17, 1999, 01:57:54
 
I would never denigrate the value of fre ...   Free as in beer a liability? What planet are   
dinotrac
Aug 17, 1999, 03:57:49
 
> The thing that really gets me about th ...   Re: Re: Your Installation Process is flawed   
Kelly Lesperance
Aug 17, 1999, 05:19:01
 
I found RedHat 5.2 and 6.0 relatively ea ...   RedHat, SuSe, Windows   
john
Aug 17, 1999, 09:22:21
 
>The thing that really gets me about the ...   reboots   
maphew
Aug 17, 1999, 09:33:38
 
Can I know what advantage do I have if I ...   Advantage of Linux   
freddy fong
Aug 17, 1999, 11:34:21
 
Hi Freddy,

see you are also from Singap ...   Re: Advantage of Linux   
john
Aug 17, 1999, 13:31:32
 
First off, I though this was a nice arti ...   Nice article....good points...different distros   
Christoph
Aug 17, 1999, 13:41:09
 
I'am setting up SCO and SuSE linux b ...   Installation versus upgrade   
Ferdinand Gassauer
Aug 17, 1999, 15:31:12
 

I had major headaches trying to install ...   Installation headaches   
Cathy James
Aug 17, 1999, 20:11:33
 

You can install caldera, and i also ins ...   Re: Installation headaches   
Anton Chang
Aug 18, 1999, 04:24:57
 
>Always choose the default in Windows, u ...   One non-default option that Windows hasn't com   
Sean McAfee
Aug 18, 1999, 19:41:51
 
Mr. Stillwell, you've grossly overes ...   Smart user!?   
NT/Linux administrator
Aug 18, 1999, 21:49:19
 
Dood!!!  I have been a DOS/Windows perso ...   Linux and Windows Installation Compared   
David Rogala
Aug 19, 1999, 03:11:34
 
You're very lucky dude!

I'm run ...   Re: One non-default option that Windows hasn't   
croco
Aug 19, 1999, 07:03:59
 
Hi
I need linux ...   Hello!   
Fer
Aug 19, 1999, 07:51:33
 
Your little retort is unnecessarily aggr ...   Re: Smart user!? - silly responder   
Gerald Miner
Aug 19, 1999, 13:41:25
 
I work in automation support for the US  ...   Linux distribution choices & MS Windows   
Scott Billings
Aug 19, 1999, 15:02:59
 
Right on! ...   Re: Re: Smart user!? - silly responder   
E!
Aug 19, 1999, 18:34:57
 
One of the best and easiest operating sy ...   Installing Linux and Windows 98 on the same machin   
David
Aug 20, 1999, 03:19:45
 
First of all, most average windows users ...   Calder Openlinux 2.2   
David Schere
Aug 20, 1999, 14:59:34
 
I have just tried to install Mandrake 6. ...   My Problems   
S Makin
Aug 20, 1999, 18:55:09
 
I run most of my development work on Cal ...   win install   
dali
Aug 20, 1999, 22:21:49
 
	I have been using Linux for about 6 mon ...   Installation of Debian   
Piotr Wilkin
Aug 21, 1999, 21:01:19
 
Hi john, I just purchased my Linux Mandr ...   Re: RedHat, SuSe, Windows   
Joel
Aug 22, 1999, 06:03:31
 
Hi Makin, I can't tell anything abou ...   Re: My Problems   
Joel
Aug 22, 1999, 06:41:53
 
I've tried severall distibutions mys ...   Re: Distro   
Chris Gallant
Aug 22, 1999, 12:48:32
 
Bill,your reply comment is wrong. the Wi ...   Re: Re: Your Installation Process is flawed   
bert
Aug 22, 1999, 21:13:10
 
I installed OpenLinux 2.2 - about thirte ...   OpenLinux 2.2   
Leon Goldstein
Aug 23, 1999, 21:50:16
 
It's actually really easy to install ...   Re: Re: Re: Your Installation Process is flawed   
Holland Heese
Aug 24, 1999, 01:01:27
 
Hello!

I hope that LINUX is the operati ...   LINUX FOR Y-2000   
Adil Anis
Aug 26, 1999, 07:11:52
 
Great post Jim. Love the humor. I couldn ...   Re: Re: Re: Your Installation Process is flawed   
airflyte
Oct 5, 1999, 04:20:01
 
Perhaps for some. But, after it's in ...   Re: Win95 much easier than Debian   
airflyte
Oct 5, 1999, 04:23:13
 
Well said!!! ...   Re: Re: This is why debian is generally used by mo   
airflyte
Oct 5, 1999, 04:24:30
 
Now let's see: Bill did a non-standa ...   Linux is no picnic either   
rwell
Nov 14, 1999, 01:21:19
 
how do i make the modem worke Iam using  ...   modem&sound card   
marcel
Dec 11, 1999, 05:22:42
 
Can any one here help me if full instruc ...   I need help   
Donnie Doster
Feb 23, 2000, 22:05:32
 
Hello,

   I have a little problem I w ...   Fdisk   
Bosco Hoyte
Oct 30, 2000, 19:13:05
 
Gnome has this built into GMC.In Debian  ...   Re: Re: Distro   
David Konsumer
Feb 8, 2002, 21:52:49
 
Then split   texas holdem game  spread d ...   texas holdem   
texas holdem
Jul 29, 2006, 19:37:18
 
Complete deuces  texas hold em tv poker  ...   texas hold em   
texas hold em
Jul 29, 2006, 19:56:48
 
Just   play blackjack online free  royal ...   play blackjack online   
play blackjack online
Jul 29, 2006, 19:57:34
 
 It is understood fill online slow  play ...   play online slots   
play online slots
Jul 29, 2006, 19:59:31
 
  Home | Search Talkbacks | Customize View    Top of Page  



Enter your comments below:

* Your Name:

* Your Email Address:

* Subject:

CC: [will also send this talkback to an E-Mail address]

* Comments:

Tags allowed:<I>,<B> and <U>. See our talkback-policy for more about talkback content.

Fields marked with * are required!






..............................




All times are recorded in UTC.
Linux is a trademark of Linus Torvalds.
Powered by Linux, Apache and PHP

internet.commediabistro.comJusttechjobs.comGraphics.com

Search:

WebMediaBrands Corporate Info

Legal Notices, Licensing, Permissions, Privacy Policy.
Advertise | Newsletters | Shopping | E-mail Offers | Freelance Jobs