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:InfoWorld: Gnome gets Mono
InfoWorld: Gnome gets Mono
Jul 22, 2001, 19 :06 UTC (105 Talkback[s]) (25728 reads)

(Other stories by Nicholas Petreley)

According to this column, Miguel de Icaza is dangerously ignorant of elements of .NET, which he's using to shore up some inherent weaknesses in GNOME, which would be a waste of energy to clean up. The solution: it's too late for GNOME, but its developers should have moved to KDE after Qt became GPL'd:

"The real shame is that Gnome once had a great reason to exist, but cleaning it up now seems like a waste of energy. GNOME was born because a terrific Linux desktop called KDE looked as though it would help Linux give Windows a run for its money. Many open-source developers protested that KDE was based on the C++ Qt graphical toolkit because Qt was not true open source at first.

Many of the Gnome developers didn't know or like the C++ programming language, so they weren't motivated to create a free version of Qt. Instead, they started a whole new desktop environment, but not from a well-architected foundation. They began with a network object model. Then they whipped up a graphical toolkit from a graphics program called Gimp. They adapted an existing window manager to fit the desktop. (First it was Enlightenment; now it's Sawfish.) After that, so many people approached Gnome from so many angles that it grew appendages on every surface. It had to in order to support everyone's favorite language. De Icaza first tried to rein in the chaos with something called Bonobo, and now he's hawking Mono as the solution."

Complete Story

Related Stories:
ZDNet UK: Linux .Net comes under threat(Jul 20, 2001)
Ximian and Microsoft [from the Mono FAQ](Jul 17, 2001)
Two More on Mono: Boston Globe Backgrounder and osOpinion on the LGPL(Jul 16, 2001)
Software Uncovered.com: Unthinkable Happens Between Microsoft and Open Source(Jul 16, 2001)
Christopher Carella: Viva Free Software!(Jul 13, 2001)
FreeDevelopers: DotGNU: .GNU to Face Down .NET (Jul 12, 2001)
TechWeb: Microsoft Gives Blessing To Open-Source .NET, But Analyst Smells A Rat(Jul 11, 2001)
Two More on Mono: de Icaza on Why it Pays to Embrace .NET(Jul 10, 2001)
LinuxProgramming: GNU Announces DotGNU and GNU Mono to Replace Microsoft .NET(Jul 09, 2001)


Index Mode   |   Flat Mode   |   Thread Mode   |   Thread Flat  
  Talkback(s) Name  and Date
Just because someone writes a page of FU ...   Yawn   
Nero
Jul 22, 2001, 19:27:20
 
Doesn't Mono keep you out of school, ...   Mono   
ben rosenberg
Jul 22, 2001, 19:47:23
 
He is completely correct.  GNOME is buil ...   Right on Nick....   
Anon
Jul 22, 2001, 19:54:49
 
InfoWorld's trolling abilities seem  ...   Troll   
Elladan
Jul 22, 2001, 19:54:35
 
> He is completely correct.  GNOME is bu ...   Re: Right on Nick....   
Rodney Quaye
Jul 22, 2001, 20:01:24
 
"developers should have moved to KDE[... ...   "developers should have moved to KDE"   
Olivier
Jul 22, 2001, 20:06:57
 
> He is completely correct.  GNOME is bu ...   Re: Right on Nick....   
Daniel
Jul 22, 2001, 20:09:48
 
I used to read his columns with some mea ...   I'm tired of Petreley   
Janne
Jul 22, 2001, 20:11:31
 
GNOME
Yes, C-based architecture of Gtk+ ...   My comments   
Ups
Jul 22, 2001, 20:21:23
 
When I open Linux magazines, I still see ...   GNOME must go   
Johan Ebert
Jul 22, 2001, 20:22:14
 
This artical was delightfully unbiased,  ...   Delightful   
AC
Jul 22, 2001, 20:25:06
 
I basically agree with Nick. Anyone who  ...   penis envy   
anonymous
Jul 22, 2001, 20:26:16
 
Why does everyone bang on gnome? It is m ...   Why does everyone bang on Gnome?   
Barn Owl
Jul 22, 2001, 20:27:43
 
If you were to ask me mono is more impor ...   I think Xiaman likes the .NET business model   
James
Jul 22, 2001, 20:31:05
 
KDE still has license issues. QT is GPL  ...   There are real issues here   
Sean Egan
Jul 22, 2001, 20:33:30
 
How annoying - I thought people in gener ...   Pity   
Jon
Jul 22, 2001, 20:38:26
 
I used to be anti KDE for the simple (st ...   I have to agree with Petreley   
Wesley Morgan
Jul 22, 2001, 20:46:42
 
> A) KDE/QT looks/feels (especially feel ...   Re: Re: Right on Nick....   
Janne
Jul 22, 2001, 20:56:29
 
GNOME does suffer from a common unix pro ...   Not all of gnome is bad   
Jesus in great pants
Jul 22, 2001, 20:56:43
 
>
> KDE needs to look at very superfici ...   Re: GNOME must go   
Doug Bostrom
Jul 22, 2001, 20:59:12
 
ROFL!
Thanks. A house divided against i ...   Re: Troll   
Karl Jackson
Jul 22, 2001, 20:59:53
 
I'm happy that you like KDE. I don&# ...   Re: GNOME must go   
Janne
Jul 22, 2001, 21:00:45
 
He is completely correct. GNOME is built ...   Re: Right on Nick....   
A C
Jul 22, 2001, 20:51:11
 
Why do these things always have to degra ...   Re: GNOME must go   
g.r.r.
Jul 22, 2001, 20:57:04
 
Instead, they started a whole new deskto ...   "well-architected foundation"   
jacob
Jul 22, 2001, 21:04:24
 
I dont trust Miguel period. I think he h ...   Miguel   
borg
Jul 22, 2001, 21:08:51
 
> KDE still has license issues. QT is GP ...   Re: There are real issues here   
Janne
Jul 22, 2001, 21:10:23
 
There is nothing wrong with some people  ...   Some people will always want to code in C.   
SM
Jul 22, 2001, 21:27:30
 
> 1) It is associated and endorsed by GN ...   Re: GNOME must go   
Ronny Vindenes
Jul 22, 2001, 21:40:06
 
Lump it or like it developers are going  ...   KDE should win   
CHarles Esson
Jul 22, 2001, 21:53:39
 
> KDE still has license issues. QT is GP ...   Re: There are real issues here   
ben
Jul 22, 2001, 22:00:43
 
> I used to be anti KDE for the simple ( ...   Re: I have to agree with Petreley   
Bruce
Jul 22, 2001, 22:01:55
 
 
> Sorry, Mandrake uses KDE as their d ...   Re: Re: Re: Right on Nick....   
Anon
Jul 22, 2001, 22:20:34
 
> This artical was delightfully unbiased ...   Petreley is just lost what little respect I had fo   
asdf
Jul 22, 2001, 22:25:43
 
You really won't get anyone able to  ...   Re: Right on Nick....   
Steve George
Jul 22, 2001, 22:30:35
 
It sure looks like it.  I'd avoid th ...   LOL...they need ad revenue?   
Derique Remanon
Jul 22, 2001, 22:36:57
 
> "developers should have moved to KDE[. ...   Re:   
Rick James
Jul 22, 2001, 22:51:50
 
> KDE still has license issues. QT is GP ...   Re: There are real issues here   
Waldo Bastian
Jul 22, 2001, 23:04:00
 
"KDE still has license issues. QT is GPL ...   Re: There are real issues here   
Hasso Tepper
Jul 22, 2001, 23:06:22
 
> KDE still has license issues. QT is GP ...   Re: There are real issues here   
Nick
Jul 22, 2001, 23:18:00
 
"Event if QT is GPL, it is not 'a tr ...   Re: My comments   
Anonymous
Jul 22, 2001, 23:29:09
 
**I personally use Gnome and 'am sti ...   Some thoughts   
Unscrewed
Jul 22, 2001, 23:44:47
 
Mr. Petreley has missed a very important ...   Common Language Runtime   
Nick
Jul 22, 2001, 23:52:32
 
Hey Nickolas, it's easy to make outr ...   Typical troll   
H.W.
Jul 23, 2001, 00:15:30
 
All KDE libraries are available under th ...   Re: Re: There are real issues here   
Sean Egan
Jul 23, 2001, 00:32:18
 
It appears to me that miguel de icaza re ...   responding to net/kde   
Harvey Nelson
Jul 23, 2001, 00:51:43
 
 The problem is that we'll never get ...   Re: My comments   
ac
Jul 23, 2001, 01:09:58
 
> There is nothing wrong with some peopl ...   Re: Some people will always want to code in C.   
Dean Pannell (a.k.a. dinotrac)
Jul 23, 2001, 01:21:08
 
> I used to read his columns with some m ...   Re: I'm tired of Petreley   
Daniel Veillard
Jul 23, 2001, 01:22:15
 
> **TrollTech actually sells Qt to custo ...   Re: Some thoughts   
anon
Jul 23, 2001, 01:36:30
 
> "Event if QT is GPL, it is not 'a  ...   Re: Re: My comments   
SM
Jul 23, 2001, 01:40:05
 
You should know better.
GNOME is free a ...   Shame on you, Nick   
Dean Pannell (a.k.a. dinotrac)
Jul 23, 2001, 02:27:28
 
There is some obvious self interest angl ...   First bash MySQL AB and now Gnome   
David D. Huff Jr.
Jul 23, 2001, 02:59:43
 

> 
> Sorry, Mandrake uses KDE as thei ...   Re: Re: Re: Right on Nick....   
David D. Huff Jr.
Jul 23, 2001, 03:01:58
 
1) "This is a ringing endorsement of .NE ...   Microsoft has two things to say . .   
Andrew Grygus
Jul 23, 2001, 03:17:04
 
Hi Daniel,

Did you by any chance mean ...   To Daniel Veillard   
S.Ramaswamy
Jul 23, 2001, 04:02:38
 
> GPLing QT completely would seriously a ...   Re: Re: Re: My comments   
Waldo Bastian
Jul 23, 2001, 05:44:19
 
You are very confused. The person you ar ...   Re: Re: I'm tired of Petreley   
Andrew Grygus
Jul 23, 2001, 06:03:45
 

When Nick talks about the problems ass ...   Its the Languages Stupid   
Bryan Brunton
Jul 23, 2001, 06:12:29
 
If I read the comments, I sometimes wond ...   Why is it...   
Alex
Jul 23, 2001, 06:49:21
 
> > I used to read his columns with some ...   Re: Re: I'm tired of Petreley   
jan
Jul 23, 2001, 07:25:09
 
KDE is the default desktop on Mandrake - ...   KDE not-windows like.   
Bill Clarke
Jul 23, 2001, 08:55:52
 
> Any KDE developer selling a binary onl ...   Re: Re: Re: There are real issues here   
reihal
Jul 23, 2001, 10:09:49
 
1) I agree that KDE could do with some b ...   some summary points   
johna
Jul 23, 2001, 10:53:10
 
Most UNIX programmers prefer C as its th ...   Re: KDE should lose   
Mike
Jul 23, 2001, 11:43:00
 
They should have been LGPL for both dyna ...   Re: Re: Re: My comments   
Bruce
Jul 23, 2001, 12:08:24
 
I'll start using KDE as soon as they ...   Re: Re: Right on Nick....   
Luciano Giordana
Jul 23, 2001, 12:16:11
 

>Sorry for this comment, many will per ...   Re: Why is it...   
mattwb
Jul 23, 2001, 12:41:01
 
For the second, I have no reason to doub ...   Re: Microsoft has two things to say . .   
Myddrin
Jul 23, 2001, 13:15:13
 
Alex, you have posted a long-winded mess ...   re:Alex   
PCR
Jul 23, 2001, 13:54:20
 
> Alex, you have posted a long-winded me ...   Re: re:Alex   
Alex
Jul 23, 2001, 14:49:28
 
> That this is a bad thing? MS will be w ...   Re: Re: Microsoft has two things to say . .   
jj
Jul 23, 2001, 15:31:53
 
 4) There is still a very small issue wi ...   Re: some summary points   
Roberto Alsina
Jul 23, 2001, 15:47:32
 
The truth is that C is a BIG reason why  ...   It's the C   
General Tao
Jul 23, 2001, 15:57:40
 
MS has almost unlimited resources. You c ...   Re: Re: Re: Microsoft has two things to say . .   
Myddrin
Jul 23, 2001, 16:00:40
 
> So appearance and platform are the mai ...   Re: It's the C   
Dean Pannell (a.k.a. dinotrac)
Jul 23, 2001, 16:08:55
 
> They should have been LGPL for both dy ...   Re: Re: Re: My comments   
AJWM
Jul 23, 2001, 16:20:13
 
> There are a couple of great articles b ...   Re: Some thoughts   
Guillaume Laurent
Jul 23, 2001, 16:23:01
 
> Lump it or like it developers are goin ...   Re: KDE should win   
anon
Jul 23, 2001, 16:23:51
 
> MS has almost unlimited resources. You ...   Re: Re: Re: Re: Microsoft has two things to say .   
jj
Jul 23, 2001, 16:48:27
 
Just a few counterpoints to the above di ...   Odds & Ends   
tc
Jul 23, 2001, 16:56:35
 
> GNOME is based on open standards like  ...   Re: Re: KDE should lose   
Vegeta
Jul 23, 2001, 17:12:02
 
> GNOME is based on open standards like  ...   Re: Re: KDE should lose   
feldspar
Jul 23, 2001, 17:44:47
 
> 1) "This is a ringing endorsement of . ...   Re: Microsoft has two things to say . .   
Rufus Polson
Jul 23, 2001, 17:51:34
 
yup.. eye to eye from the start ...   Re: I think Xiaman likes the .NET business model   
dave
Jul 23, 2001, 18:28:17
 
> "Redhat, Debian, Mandrake, and soon So ...   default desktop   
emir
Jul 23, 2001, 18:59:55
 
Nick has a platform to spout his biased  ...   Nick's prejudice towards KDE   
ac
Jul 23, 2001, 19:50:17
 
We shouldn't pretend that KDE and Gn ...   Enough with the DE pacifism   
spazmodeus
Jul 23, 2001, 20:45:33
 
> We shouldn't pretend that KDE and  ...   Re: Enough with the DE pacifism   
jj
Jul 23, 2001, 21:44:17
 
Nick hasn't worked for Caldera for m ...   Re: Nick's prejudice towards KDE   
Andrew Grygus
Jul 23, 2001, 22:17:43
 
He was probably laid off because of his  ...   Re: Re: Nick's prejudice towards KDE   
Anon
Jul 23, 2001, 23:13:02
 

 The only thing I miss is the lack of  ...   Re: Why is it...   
Nodatadj
Jul 23, 2001, 23:21:54
 
> > GPLing QT completely would seriously ...   Re: Re: Re: Re: My comments   
SM
Jul 23, 2001, 23:35:42
 
I've just sent this mail to Nick. Le ...   An attempted response...   
Alex Graveley
Jul 23, 2001, 23:46:14
 
Hey Coward,

I am currently running Gn ...   Re: Re: re:Alex   
Kevin Hudson
Jul 24, 2001, 04:14:45
 
> Hey Coward,
> 
> I am currently runn ...   Alex   
AC
Jul 24, 2001, 07:48:29
 
Good article.  You do realise that 

a ...   nope, nosiree   
x
Jul 24, 2001, 13:01:57
 
> It should also be noted that GNOME is  ...   Re: nope, nosiree   
Anonymous
Jul 24, 2001, 14:19:14
 
> c) KDE reminds some of us of the absol ...   Re: nope, nosiree   
Fredrik C
Jul 24, 2001, 16:46:45
 
> Maybe I don't fully understand the ...   Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: My comments   
Waldo Bastian
Jul 24, 2001, 23:04:07
 
You want an environment that supports mu ...   GNOME/KDE are not relevant   
jfcl
Jul 25, 2001, 00:38:39
 

> 2) Better graphics. Yes, it's th ...   Re: GNOME must go   
CLO
Jul 25, 2001, 06:30:31
 
> That this is a bad thing? MS will be w ...   Re: Re: Re: Microsoft has two things to say . .   
Wol
Jul 25, 2001, 07:53:06
 
I also think it is sad that the Gnome de ...   Re: Re: GNOME must go   
Former Gnome User
Jul 25, 2001, 16:35:13
 
  >> We shouldn't pretend that KDE a ...   Re: Re: Enough with the DE pacifism   
ac
Jul 25, 2001, 18:25:28
 
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